Jim, Your interpretaion is 100% correct. I have personally Listed many products with UL1950 Third Edition with a supplemental earthing terminal as you described below with no basic insulation between the TNV-2/TNV-3 circuits and SELV/Earth.
The standard specifies that basic insulation is one way of complying with the requirements. Another way is as you describe in your e-mail and which I have used to Approve lots of equipment worldwide. However, the standard goes on to say "other solutions are not excluded". My question to you all does anyone have a design or could give some examples using "other solutions are not excluded"? PS - The IEC 950 WG7 Committe (Telecoms) is currently working on Remote Power Feeding Requirements. Some members of the committe are also from the US and Canada. We are working together to come up with solutions. A lot of work still remains and I am hopeful that within 2 years we should have common requirements (of course as usual, with deviations for member countries). I strongly feel that there is really no need to come up with a new standard for network equipment since the UL1950 will eventually have the remote power feed requirements included. Best Regards, > In a message dated 3/24/99, [email protected] writes: > > > The only design criteria with regard to insulation in Bellcore standards or > UL 1459 is a hi-pots test. > > Creepage and clearance do not exist in traditional C.O. equipment (just look > at wire wrapped > > backplanes). > > > Dear Jim and others: > > Jim Wiese has raised several concerns regarding the transition from UL 1459 to > UL 1950 (3rd Edition). One of these concerns relates to the new creepage and > clearance requirements for separation of TNV circuits and ground/SELV. > > I would like to pick up on this one issue (I know that Jim has raised several > other issues as well). In particular, I would like some feedback from others > in the group regarding my interpretation of how the separation requirements in > UL 1950 apply to certain types of equipment. > > Just this week I met with a PBX manufacturer who is in the process of re- > designing the backplane and all of the line cards in their PBX to "comply with > UL 1950." The PBX is presently approved to UL 1459, but the manufacturer has > its eye on the March 2000 date for new or modified products to comply with UL > 1950. Needless to say, the redesign effort is an expensive one. > > The biggest headache in the redesign is complying with the creepage and > clearance distances for separation of TNV and SELV circuits. The PBX > manufacturer seemed incredulous when I stated that I did not think the > creepage and clearance requirements applied to their product, since the PBX > has a permanent (hardwired) connection to ground. My interpretation is based > primarily on the following statement in clause 6.2.1.2 in UL 1950, paraphrased > below: > > " Basic insulation is not required provided that all of the following > conditions are met: > - the SELV circuit .... is connected to protective earth...in accordance > with 2.5; and > - the installation instructions specify....a permanent connection to earth; > and > - the test of 6.2.1.3 is carried out... (where applicable)" > > There are other clauses that call out isolation, such as 6.3.3.1 and 6.4.1, > but the "permanent ground" exemption appears to apply here as well. > > In my view, these exemptions are specifically targeted at equipment such as > PBXs and network equipment that are typically installed by service personnel > and include hardwired grounding. Without these exemptions, it is almost > impossible to separate certain types of TNV circuits from SELV and ground. > For example, a feed circuit that provides 48V battery (SLIC, FXS, DID, etc.) > is inherently referenced to ground. The situation with a ground-start FXO > interface is not much better. > > Do others in the group agree with this interpretation? If not, how are feed > circuits supposed to be isolated? Does anyone have direct experience with > getting a product through UL with these exemptions? > > I recognize that the original thread here related to network equipment, but > the "permanent ground" exemption should apply to network equipment as well. I > also recognize that these exemptions only apply to circuits that qualify as > TNV, and do not address some of the other issues that Jim Weise raised > concerning things like 200 volts DC for repeaters. However, for simple TNV > isolation, it seems that network equipment could use the "permanent ground" > exemptions from having to provide creepage and clearance (or in fact, any > isolation at all). > > Any input from others in the group would be welcome. > > > Joe Randolph > Telecom Design Consultant > Randolph Telecom, Inc. > 781-721-2848 (USA) > > --------- > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to [email protected] > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to [email protected], > [email protected], [email protected], or > [email protected] (the list administrators). > PETER S. MERGUERIAN MANAGING DIRECTOR PRODUCT TESTING DIVISION I.T.L. (PRODUCT TESTING) LTD. 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