Dave Sorenson wrote:
Yes the list goes off topic to include cold beverages, Windows OS questions, Solaris, picnics, etc.. What KEEPS the list off topic longer (and usually longer than the OT thread would last anyway) are the zealots chiming in the "This is off topic, you must stop this" replies. I will admit I'm as guilty of responding to this as anyone else. I don't believe that people should have to RTFM before asking for help from people who have been there already. More than half of the posts that are ON topic aren't of interest to me so I hit delete without complaint. The off-topic stuff is low noise IMHO and not a distraction. In fact, I have learned a number of new things spawned from so called Off-topic threads.
+1. I know I've been guilty of this in the [recent] past, too. I don't mind--in fact, I encourage--questions like, "What do Linux people use to protect a Windows box when you have to put one online?" or "What evidence have you seen suggesting a rebound or lack thereof in the tech sector?" Those are great for discussion. Speaking personally, the only things I have an objection to are these:
1) People posting are those not designed to engender discussion but instead advance an agenda--"$DISTRIBUTION sucks and you're an idiot if you use it." "$CANDIDATE is best for this country and $OTHER_CANDIDATE stinks." Notice that one of those could even be labeled "on-topic" for the list--it's the phrasing that tends to obliterate discussion and foment arguments.
2) Answers that offer only trolls but nothing useful. Answering the question "My Windows users have problems accessing my Squid proxy" with "Don't use Windows and you won't have that problem" doesn't help, it just tends to drive people off the list. As another example (as has come up a couple of times), if someone asks "How do I enable telnet for root," answering with "Use SSH, loser" doesn't do him any good. Answering with, "You can enable that by doing X, Y, and Z...but you might want to consider SSH [or some other alternative] if you haven't already because of A, B, and C" is actually useful, and still gets the point across that You Shouldn't Do That. (As I've had to learn the hard way more than once, just because You Shouldn't Do That doesn't mean that you won't sometimes Have To Do That.)
It would probably help for the Steering Committee to pick a consistent stance among themselves for what they want to see on the list and how to handle violations, and then (gently!) enforce said stance together. A couple of polite reminders (and perhaps a periodic reminder FAQ posted to the list about what's expected) would likely go a long way towards fostering community.
Lets discuss this further, hammer out some sort of agreement? Truce? Understanding? And get back to the fun stuff so we don't have to wear our nomex underpants again in a few weeks.
Amen. I still get loads of useful information from this list, which is why I've kept my subscription active even after changing coasts. I think I've always been the peacemaker, so while I'm happy to have reasoned and honest discussion, I'm the first to get twitchy when people begin making it personal and getting angry, and to my disappointment I've seen a lot of that on this list lately. A thought for all (yes, including me): before posting, re-read your post and ask yourself how someone else would read what you've written. Remember, while you're reading, that email is a fundamentally lousy communication medium: no body language, no facial expressions, no verbal connotations. People will tend to take what you say literally, so play nice, and when in doubt, no one ever got in trouble for posting something that was too nice. *grin*
--Jos
-- / Jos Purvis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) || Yet Another Security Geek \ +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | I just can't haiku / I can never remember / how many...MY EYE! | | -- Mike Sphar, demonstrating his poetic abilities in SDM | -- TriLUG mailing list : http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug TriLUG Organizational FAQ : http://trilug.org/faq/ TriLUG Member Services FAQ : http://members.trilug.org/services_faq/ TriLUG PGP Keyring : http://trilug.org/~chrish/trilug.asc
