Re: [TriLUG] Flaking PSU?

[Jim Ray]

it is no skin off my nose that dell likes intel.  dell just happens to 
use inferior quality hard drives that run at 10,000 rpm instead of 
15,000 rpm hot swap scsi screamers.  there's a direct correlation 
between hard drive rpm and speed of server.  you pay a premium to get 
the speed yet get pay back every day when employees get their work done 
faster.

dell's service really blows grits when you have to spend 30 minutes on 
the phone explaining that the hard disk needs replacement when you hear 
ker chunka chunk chunk noises.  then, you have to wait 3 days to get the 
replacement part if you are still inside the whopping 90 day warranty.

i like our n3 server because a little lit goes off and a beeper sounds 
to let you know the hot spare is automatically kicking in.  me thinks 
the manufacturer has a 5 year warranty as well.

of course, there are those that want to go straight to dell.  don't pass 
go.  don't collect $200.

regards,

jim

Jim Ray, President
Neuse River Network, Inc.

tel: 919-838-1672 x111
http://www.Neuse.Net

Ask about our Clean Technologies.  Established in the Carolinas 1997.

Matthew Lavigne wrote:
Jim,

You do realize that with the exception of any of the alienware systems 
or  AMD systems that Dell may sell, Dell is firmly an Intel shop.  
Meaning that the motherboards that they sell are Intel reference design 
and are generally the board that Intel recommends to the vendors to 
use.  As far as cheap, my guess is if you buy any GigByte boards then 
you are most likely using what Dell is (as the last time that I checked 
that was who they were using to build the Intel reference boards for them).

Just a point of clarification.


Matthew

Soon to be in New York looking for a new LUG.



Jim Ray wrote:
my argument for folks spending $4000+ for a real server is as follows. 
here is the one we sell that has the necessary hardware under the hood 
for an entry level small business running linux or winders:

http://www.neuse.net/server

the first point brings up the insurance argument.  do you have 
insurance for your business?  of course, you do.  everyone does (or at 
least should).  so, the RAID5 with hot spare, redundant power supplies 
and ECC memory insure risk of downtime and data loss.

as for optiplex vs dimension, i stay away from both and am partial to 
intel motherboards because i've been working with their chips since 
1981 when the SDK85 with a whopping 8085A processor came out.  i don't 
care who stamps their name on the front.  dell likes cheap and fast.  
i like local and high quality.  fact of the matter is that i can get 
local and high quality cheaper than dell as well.

if they've got budget for the expensive UPS, they've got budget for a 
real server.

just my $0.02.

hth,

jim
Jim Ray, President
Neuse River Network, Inc.

tel: 919-838-1672 x111
http://www.Neuse.Net

Ask about our Clean Technologies.  Established in the Carolinas 1997.

Brian Henning wrote:
That's fair, and I'll answer it honestly.

Partly, it's due to my inexperience and shortcomings as a 
salesperson.  At
this point, I'm not very good at making a convincing argument for a 
$3,000
machine that, on the surface, appears to do no more than a 
similarly-spec'ed
$500 machine.  (Yes.  What I described is essentially a desktop-grade
machine in a server case.)

The second factor is the person to whom I have to make the sale.  In 
this
particular company, the concept of opportunity cost is almost 
unknown.  If I
spend $500 on parts, and yet end up devoting 100 hours out of the 
next year
to direct service of said parts, he still feels like he's come out 
ahead.
(and in fact, at my current pay scale, compared to a $3,000 capital
investment, for those numbers he does come out quite a bit ahead,
opportunity cost notwithstanding).  In this company, for example, we buy
Dimensions instead of Optiplexes except in the case of incentive 
programs
such as UPS' Customer Technology Program.  This company would rather 
spend
two weeks to a month every year cyclically creating new QuickBooks 
company
files and jumping through the hoops necessary to carry critical data 
over
(as well as creating the headaches of tracking previous transactions) 
than
put down the up-front cost of a financial system that can better 
handle the
stress of a business which lives largely in the retail market (where 
we can
easily have a customer list that grows by 15,000 in a year).

Gradually the mentality of the company is changing.  We now have a 
proper
2500VA UPS system in our network closet, rather than the two or three
desktop UPSes that used to live in there.  But the closet (which now 
houses
six computers, the UPS, and our PBX equipment) is still being
(ineffectively) cooled by a mildew-filled sputtery 20-year-old 
window-unit
air conditioner, despite my continuing suggestions that the A/C can't 
keep
up with the heat output of the equipment.  It's a smallish company, 
with a
strongly-entrenched small-company mentality.

So there's the long answer.  The short answer is "it's what makes the 
boss
happy right now."

Cheers,
~B


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Kevin Flanagan
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:09 PM
To: Triangle Linux Users Group discussion list
Subject: Re: [TriLUG] Flaking PSU?


So,


    I've got to ask the question, if you wanted a server, why didn't 
you
buy one. I don't see anything that you are doing in the system you
listed out that couldn't be done in a desktop.  If you pay the premium
you get quality and service.  If you add up all of the parts, and your
time, will you really end up saving dough over buying a "name
brand" server?



Just my $.02




    Kevin




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