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-- (2008) list Home page with access to Archives: http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom -- ************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************ Previously sent Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:16:26 +0200 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 23:46:00 +0100 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:36:39 +0100 Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 07:01:03 +0100 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:47:00 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:50:29 +0100 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:35:02 UTC Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄTROM-L Ä Msg : 200 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn From : Steve Solomon 236/174.10 Thu 03 Aug 95 18:15 To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri 04 Aug 95 19:56 Subj : Re: ability exercises ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Apparently-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Solomon) Subject: Re: ability exercises Bill wrote: > >I think of auditing as being divided into at least 2 separate >categories, "incident running" and "ability exercises". A good >example of incident running is Book One Dianetics. Ability >exercises, on the other hand, do not address individual incidents >but try to raise the ability level of the being. This is really >just _practicing_. If you practiced playing the piano for enough >days in a row, you'd learn how to play it. Similarly, if you get >a being to recall pictures, create mock-ups, etc. enough, he gets >good at it -- he gains that ability. > >I see timebreaking as an ability that the being learns. He >learns how to hold a picture up against present time until the >picture is erased. Ultimately he gets so good at this that any >picture that comes up he can just erase by inspection -- at >least, that would be the ideal. A very handy ability to have! There's an old saying: practice makes perfect. That's wrong. Practice makes permanent. Steve Solomon The Ex-Formidible Grand Dragon Virtual Dragon Society / \ //\ |\___/| / \// .\ /O O \__ / // | \ \ / / \/_/ // | \ \ @___@' \/_ // | \ \ | \/_ // | \ \ | \/// | \ \ _|_ / ) // | \ _\ '/,_ _ _/ ( ; -. | _ _\.-~ .-~~~^-. ,-{ _ `-.|.-~-. .~ `. '/\ / ~-. _ .-~ .-~^-. \ `. { } / \ \ .----~-.\ \-' .~ \ `. \^-. ///.----..> c \ _ -~ `. ^-` ^-_ ///-._ _ _ _ _ _ _}^ - - - - ~ ~--, .-~ --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄTROM-L Ä Msg : 202 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn From : Christine 236/174.10 Thu 03 Aug 95 06:22 To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri 04 Aug 95 19:56 Subj : Re: ability exercises ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Apparently-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: ability exercises At 10:54 AM 8/3/95 -0700, you wrote: >> >> There's an old saying: practice makes perfect. That's wrong. Practice makes >> permanent. > >That's wrong too. Practice makes rehabilitated. > Okay, I gotta bite. Practice is practice. Now that you've done that, let's go do real life. --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄTROM-L Ä Msg : 205 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn From : Lenny or Jevan Gray 236/174.10 Thu 03 Aug 95 09:13 To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri 04 Aug 95 19:56 Subj : Re: ability exercises ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Apparently-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Lenny or Jevan Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: ability exercises On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Christine wrote: > At 10:54 AM 8/3/95 -0700, you wrote: > >> > >> There's an old saying: practice makes perfect. That's wrong. Practice makes > >> permanent. > > > >That's wrong too. Practice makes rehabilitated. > > > Okay, I gotta bite. Practice is practice. Now that you've done that, > let's go do real life. Repeated doing _is_ practice. Hopefully we _are_ repeatedly doing "real life". Practice facilitates _Habit_, which, though it has a down side, is one of the things I've been trying to identify for the denizens of these Internet groups as a _virtue_. Again, the "four virtues", which form an abbreviated version of something akin to the "tone chart", are: A) Confidence B) Excitement C) Sensitivity D) Habit They're _all_ "good" -- but, when it comes to an either/or situation, then the higher ones are better. This last statement of the relationships between such states _also_ holds true for the _traditional_ "tone chart", though most people erroneously think of a "low tone" as "Bad". The aspect of "better than nothing" is generally somehow missed. Low Tone may be "low", but it _is_ "tone". 8) - Lenny - --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄTROM-L Ä Msg : 210 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn From : Bill Maier 236/174.10 Mon 21 Aug 95 12:04 To : Andreas Mittermayr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Tue 22 Aug 95 07:20 Subj : Re: Auditing and RI ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Apparently-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Maier ) Subject: Re: Auditing and RI You wrote: > >Hello, > >When doing auditing ( not solo ), for example old Dianetic style, why do >the preclears do not go mad due to the lack of RI ? In LRH's 'Dianetics' >or the L. Kin book II I never read about repair of importance or >something similar. I think that Stephen's RI process is really the same as Havingness as used in Scientology. Whether RI is run or not, I think it would tend to equalize out in the long run, since simple confront actions like looking around or dusting the furniture tend to restore havingness. Not too long ago I ran a session of TROM where I erased some very heavy incidents, and I neglected to run RI at the end of session. I was very uncomfortable later on. Although I didn't then have time or the privacy for a session, I went out and took a walk and just looked around. That was enough to restore the lack of havingness, at least for a while. That evening I ran RI and completed the cycle. Last time we heard from you, I believe you were starting Level 3. How are things going for you? Bill --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄTROM-L Ä Msg : 211 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn From : Dimitri Ivakhnenko 236/174.10 Tue 22 Aug 95 09:08 To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue 22 Aug 95 20:55 Subj : Re: Auditing and RI ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Apparently-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Dimitri Ivakhnenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Auditing and RI Andreas wrote: >When doing auditing ( not solo ), for example old Dianetic style, why do >the preclears do not go mad due to the lack of RI ? In LRH's 'Dianetics' >or the L. Kin book II I never read about repair of importance or >something similar. I like the term 'grounding' from the Flemming Funch's 'Transformational Paths'. It seems that life has a lot of built-in safety mechanisms. For example, social mechanisms. People usually set a portion of their time for talking, collectively drinking tea, watching TV, eating, going for a trips, etc., thanks to which they stay sane. There are plenty ways of 'grounding' and 'replenishing resources'. Personally I may dance along with creating something, take a shower, take a walk, playing with reality, sleep, or go to the river. As to the auditing in Hubbard's style, I have run a lot of repetitive processes and now I can compare it with making music on one big drum and nothing more. Surely it works but thanks to the safety mechanisms which protect the ears. With additional instruments, for example RI, music sounds much better. And BTW, there were are cases of insanity in CofS, maybe partly due to the lack of RI-type techniques. Dimitri --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄTROM-L Ä Msg : 212 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn From : Bill Maier 236/174.10 Tue 22 Aug 95 10:43 To : Andreas Mittermayr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Wed 23 Aug 95 07:22 Subj : Re: Auditing and RI ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Apparently-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Maier ) Subject: Re: Auditing and RI You wrote: >I don't know if TROM is the right thing for me. Level 2 and 3 >are so ... I can't really say... let me try to explain it the other way: >I think Level 4 and 5 would be ok for me because it has specific commands >( get the feeling of beeing not known for example). You are guided what to >do. But Level 2 and 3 are so general. I don't know what scenes to timebreak. >In one of your last mail to me you said on level 2/3 it is not so important >what scenes I take to timebreak. Well I can't really describe what the >problem is, but something keeps me away from making progress with TROM. By >now I am also uncertain if I really get changes while RI. Perhaps I should >run a good amount of objective processing before starting with TROM again. >Perhaps an e-meter would help me to recognize the changes. I don't know. >Perhaps a co-auditing style would be better for me to start with, but there >is nobody interested in my area. > It is difficult to know what to do when you are entirely on your own. Sometimes having an auditor is helpful. I started off having rather good gains with TROM, but I would even then occasionally run across times when things would not go well. A few weeks ago I got really bogged down with TROM, to the point where every time I would try to do it I would get very massy and scattered, unable to focus. So I decided to lay off for a while, although I'm sure I will go back to doing it again some day. For right now I'm exploring other auditing. Incidentally, I have found an E-meter to be very useful in solo auditing, since it gives me an objective indication of what is happening.However, I have not found it very useful in doing TROM. The distraction of trying to keep the needle on the dial breaks my concentration enough to where it becomes difficult to Timebreak. Dennis did say it could be used for TROM, though, so it might work for you. Bill --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄTROM-L Ä Msg : 213 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn From : Dimitri Ivakhnenko 236/174.10 Wed 23 Aug 95 10:45 To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed 23 Aug 95 20:29 Subj : Re: Auditing and RI ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Apparently-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Dimitri Ivakhnenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Auditing and RI Andreas wrote: >>Well I can't really describe what the >>problem is, but something keeps me away from making progress with TROM. By >>now I am also uncertain if I really get changes while RI. Perhaps I should >>run a good amount of objective processing before starting with TROM again. >>Perhaps an e-meter would help me to recognize the changes. I don't know. >>Perhaps a co-auditing style would be better for me to start with, but there >>is nobody interested in my area. Well, I am in a similar situation. Just now I have no partner. I have run a lot of objectives, have run TROM without auditor and with auditor, and have marvellous gains. But. The problem is well described in the Flemming's book in the chapter 'Three Bands of Development'. The processes exteriorized me, gave me a lot of realizations, but they were very slow in solving my problems. So the gains were difficult to observe, forceful and not very stable. So what I do now is translating 'Transformational Dialogues' to find afterwards a partner, first of all to solve problems and get tangible results. Meanwhile what I do is general activity like visualization, imagination, etc. mostly simultaneously with some physical activity. Translating is too an excellent instrument for development. I successfully used some problems-oriented techniques from 'Trans-Dial', for example Unblocking, Unburdening, Swish Pattern, but nevertheless working with a partner will be much more effective. As to the E-Meter, I yet have no possibility to get a good one, and to be sincere I don't like it very much. It seems to me that the personal development must be fun, and I don't find much enjoyment having to watch the needle and trusting it rather than myself. I am going to get a lot of skilled potential partners and then I will resolve any time-tracks, goals packages, astral pimples and cosmic flu if I will be interested in that. It will be easy to find partners since I will be able to help them in resolving their actual problems. Personal development is fun. Dimitri --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 Keep On TROMming Pete McLaughlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] List Moderator _______________________________________________ Trom mailing list [email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
