************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************
And that idea of infinite nothingness is where lots of people can get stuck. The notion of infinite nothingness in eastern mysticism. It cuts up havingness really badly because they forget about the counterpoint, the creative potential inherent in source point. The one doesn't exist apart from the other. Cannot exist without the other. We are either in a games condition or we are not along all the dynamics. And if we skip the joint and punch our way out of the universe and stay in a static state that static state is NOTHINGNESS+SOMETHINGNESS IN POTENTIAL as one package. And that somethingness in potential is what individuality is because as static my manifestation of a games condition is going to be different from yours.
And that is the beauty of having played the game for so long here. We can create infinite diversity. I like the way Carlos put it. Infinite nothingness that simultaneously has the capacity for infinite creation. And thus choosing to create a games condition. Like a child sitting quietly and then suddenly jumping up and saying. I want to play a game. Who wants to play? Or if no kids are around, then imaginary ones will do :) ElJay On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 9:04 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Send Trom mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Similarities and Differences (Slim) > 2. Re: observations on Exteriorization (Carlos Dos Santos) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:46:48 -0700 > From: Slim <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [TROM1] Similarities and Differences > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, The > Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > One is not more significant than the other. They are two sides of the same > coin. > > It's not about attaching significance to either of them .: ) > > > > > On Aug 6, 2010, at 10:47 AM, "Pete McLaughlin" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > ************* > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > ************ > > Slim is right that it doesn?t matter what significance you attach to the > similarities and differences of objects or incidents compared in TROM. You > can compare colors to emotions or shapes to smells. Don?t worry about > limiting yourself to comparing like things to like things. > > > > > > > > At the same time Colleen is right. > > > > > > > > ?The thing about similarities is why TROM works. > > > > It is covered by Dennis early in the materials. > > > > > > > > When one takes over the normal mechanisms of the mind, one will become > cause over it. > > > > Finding similarities is what the mind does automatically all the time. > > > > This mechanism keeps dragging in an unpleasant past on you continually. > > > > The scientology words are: The mind keeps you restimulated all the time. > > > > It keeps you "keyed in". > > > > > > > > This is the reason TROM works. > > > > You take over the mechanism and find similarities yourself. > > > > The mind is put "in danger" by this. (a scientology concept) > > > > Someone else is doing it's job, this is terrible. > > > > The mind loses it's ability to drag in the past. > > > > You are gradually getting stronger than the mind by finding similarities. > > > > The mind goes into apathy and evaporates. > > > > What a sad story. > > > > > > > > TROM is only the route of the gradients to do this. > > > > It is actually a very simple concept. > > > > But most people are too complex to get it. > > > > > > > > Keep on troming..? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Part of TROM is about taking back control of the content of your mind > (that collection of memories containing beings opposed to you, the > postulates they stuck you with, the emotions you attached to being stuck > with that postulate and the efforts and pain you felt then). > > > > You do this by doing what the mind is doing to you so it is bypassed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Both Dennis and Lester Levenson (author of the ?Keys to Ultimate Freedom) > point out that you will work at discovering the content of you mind and > eliminating it a piece at a time till you realize that the rest of it is > much like what you have already eliminated and just chuck the remainder. At > that point you will be at peace, Nirvana, free to play games with others or > not as you choose and experienced enough to recognize when another is > offering you a role in their crazy game so you can make the informed > decision to play or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep on TROMing > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <image001.gif> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Trom mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20100806/7586245b/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:04:55 +0000 > From: Carlos Dos Santos <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [TROM1] observations on Exteriorization > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > > Slim wrote: > > > It's difficult to understand, i know. Its the fifth dimension . How can > one be in the past and the present at the same time ? By being in the in the > past and present at the same time . Its a very large existence as a > spiritual being . The firth dimension is walking around "out of body " but > with a case. The fifth is similar in many ways, but no case and full native > state abilities restored. > > > > > Thank you for your response. To me personally, it's not difficult to > understand at all. It's actually very easy. I can be in the past, present > time and the future at the same time. > > > > No case doesn't mean what you think in my opinion. It means total > freedom of choice , native state as a spiritual being who has the choice > that you have defined as no case. I can have all the things you have > described right now but i still have a case. > > > > Native state is total ability to do anything create anything and i mean > anything , not just be nothing like you have described . That's easy . What > about the positive side of the goals ? have identity , have viewpoint, have > sensations, have considerations , have charge. What you have described is a > dead being and are non life goals. There is no higher ability , no freer > state of being than total freedom of choice . To have or not have. > > > > > > This is a matter of viewpoint. I like your viewpoint and I like what your > posting here, but it still your viewpoint. You are right from your point of > view, just as I am right from my point of view. There is no absolute > rightness or absolute wrongness, just subjective rightness and subjective > wrongness. This too is a matter of viewpoint. > > > > I will clarify my definition of no-case a little bit more. When I look at > Scientologist (especially in the CoS), I see beings who want to be some kind > of super OT spiritual being. A spiritual being is somethingness and it > belongs to the 7th dynamic. Even if scientologists become a > super-powered-somethingness, it's still a somethingness. These scientologist > have a false end goal, namely the goal to become something. I would not want > you are anyone else to fall for this trap. > > > > You are not something. You are the infinite nothingness which is Dynamic 8. > Wanting to be something is the reason for the downfall of your abilities. > Remember in the beginning there was the decision to be. To be what exactly? > To be something. Being something is way better than being nothing. Can you > imagine being nothing. Most beings can not, because it's too heavily > charged. Try imagining being nothing and experiencing infinite loneliness. I > can tell you from my own experience that this charge is almost unbearable. > > > > All creations are the result of the almost infinite resistance to being > NOTHING. Infinite nothingness (dynamic 8) is not consciousness. > > Infinite nothingness is POTENTIAL consciousness. It has the ability to wake > up. Once the infinite nothingness wakes up it has transformed itself from > potential consciouness to consciousness. Thus a viewpoint is born. This > viewpoint is not dynamic 8, it's dynamic 7 and it's a limitation from what > you really are. > > > > As long as your talking about a viewpoint you are at least talking about > dynamic 7. From my mocked-up point of view, you will eventually have to > fully as-is your current viewpoint, drop it entirely, be out of all games > and than come back with full power. You can than pretend to be a 7th dynamic > creation while fully knowing that you are the 8th dynamic which is infinite > nothingness. > > > > Why would one want to limit oneself to just one viewpoint, if you can be > all viewpoints in existence. You are everything and nothing at the same > time. > > > > I really do understand your viewpoint, because I am you. I have tried to > reach the ulitimate goal, while holding on to my own viewpoint and it just > did not happen, beacuase it can not happen. As long as you hold on to a > viewpoint, you will be limited to the limitations of that viewpoint. This > situation will only be handled in the final instance when one is willing to > drop one's own viepoint and become the infinite nothingness which is what > you really are. > > > > Happy tromming, > > > > Carlos > > > > P.s.: By the way YOU are not in the body. The body is in YOU. Only a 7th > dynamic viewpoint, with the awareness of being a spiritual being, considers > itself to be IN the body. > > > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:16:19 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [TROM1] observations on Exteriorization > > > > ************* > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > ************ > > > > > > It's difficult to understand, i know. Its the fifth dimension . How can > one be in the past and the present at the same time ? By being in the in the > past and present at the same time . Its a very large existence as a > spiritual being . The firth dimension is walking around "out of body " but > with a case. The fifth is similar in many ways, but no case and full native > state abilities restored. > > > > Until you get " there " you wont have the ability to mock it up. It's too > occluded. Once you are even able to mock it up you will almost be done with > level five. > > > > No case doesn't mean what you think in my opinion. It means total freedom > of choice , native state as a spiritual being who has the choice that you > have defined as no case. I can have all the things you have described right > now but i still have a case. > > > > Native state is total ability to do anything create anything and i mean > anything , not just be nothing like you have described . That's easy . What > about the positive side of the goals ? have identity , have viewpoint, have > sensations, have considerations , have charge. What you have described is a > dead being and are non life goals. There is no higher ability , no freer > state of being than total freedom of choice . To have or not have. > > > > When we know a past scene, we are there in the past scene and we bring it > to the present time where we time break it . As a spiritual being , when i > go , literally go to the space and time i had native state , i will have > native state ability. Then it's a matter of being " there " and returning to > present time at the same time . It time breaks and i will have my full > native state ability in present time again . A being can only be in one > place at a time. When you view a past scene you are viewing the past , you > are there and you have the ability you had while you are there. When you > view then and now simultaneously, you time break it , you regain that > ability in the now. > > > > When you view the center of the onion or native state and completely > leave present time to be there, you will have your native state ability > restored at the time you had it , but when you come back to present time > without time breaking it you will lose the ability . If you time break the > center of the onion from the center of the onion, while in present time you > are in fact both places at the same time and the same locations in space and > time . Its a big chunk of mass to time break all at once . After using level > five for a while you'll be chiseling away at the chuck of mass between > native state and present time . One day you'll do it and time break the > whole onion and restore full ability and native state. I'm getting close. > > > > It's, see the trap, and then, walk out of the trap. Level five is > complete with full ability restored . > > It can be considered clearly when one gets into level five a ways and > gets closer to the top of level five . It may seem contradicting to you but > it doesn't to me . > > > > I'm just writing all of this for my own benefit but others may find it > interesting as well. > > > > Its sort of a blog i guess. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 2010, at 7:14 AM, Carlos Dos Santos <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > ************* > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > > ************ > > > Slim wrote: > > > > There're different degrees of out of body . There's out of universe > too . Out of every thing . > > > > > > > > > > I agree. As long as one occupies a viewpoint, one can be exterior to > practically anything. > > > > > > > When you get to the center of the onion where you have no case, > you'll also have full ability as long as you are there and should use it to > resolve ( time break ) conflicting goals from the center outwards. You'll be > in present time at the center of the onion and the outer edge of the onion. > > > > > > > > > > No invalidation intended here, but from my mocked-up point of view the > above statement is a contradicting one. If "you get to the center of the > onion where you have no case" it would mean that you have no case. If you > have no case, than there is nothing to resolve and nothing to time break. > > > > > > No case means no emotions, no thoughts, no sensations, no > considerations, no charge, no timetrack, no identity and no viewpoint. > > > > > > Without a viewpoint, there is no point from which one can time break > anything. > > > > > > sincerely, > > > > > > Carlos > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 17:29:01 -0700 > > > > Subject: Re: [TROM1] observations on Exteriorization > > > > > > > > ************* > > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > > > ************ > > > > There're different degrees of out of body . There's out of universe > too . Out of every thing . > > > > > > > > Seems like the further back on the track ( deeper in the onion ) the > less conflicting goals there are . Once one gets to the center of the onion > in present time ? Thats it . From there one can go forward on the track > while in pt and time break the future which is really the past so to speak, > and resolve all conflicting goals gaining power of postulate and ability as > you go forward from the inside out . > > > > > > > > Going from present time backwards is good and that's really the only > way you can get to the beginning with TROM. You will eventually get to the > point of when you had no case in present time but get your case back, as > there are still conflicting goals, as you move back to the outer onion. Then > its just a matter of going back to the center of the onion each session and > with a few more sessions, resolve your whole case with full , native state > ability permanently L ,,,;emmemvh. restored for a while as nothing is > permanent with, total freedom of choice. > > > > > > > > When you get to the center of the onion where you have no case, > you'll also have full ability as long as you are there and should use it to > resolve ( time break ) conflicting goals from the center outwards. You'll be > in present time at the center of the onion and the outer edge of the onion. > > > > > > > > Most of the ability loss in terms of conflicting goals, seems to be > at the outer part of the onion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 5:24 AM, Carlos Dos Santos < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ************* > > > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > > > > ************ > > > > > Hi Xriz, > > > > > > > > > > Once you've done level 1,2,3 and 4 correctly and get to level 5, > you will be able to make exteriorisation a stable ability. > > > > > > > > > > At level 5 you will AS-IS every postulate and counter-postulate > with regards to exteriorisation. > > > > > > > > > > Just be persistent and have fun while tromming, > > > > > > > > > > Carlos > > > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > > > > > > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 00:47:30 +0200 > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: Re: [TROM1] observations on Exteriorization > > > > > > > > > > > > ************* > > > > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > > > > > ************ > > > > > > I experience it with the same problems as you do. > > > > > > I guess it has something to do with the actual creation of space. > Not so > > > > > > much the awareness of existing MEST space, but the current > creation of own > > > > > > space. > > > > > > I also welcome any suggestions how to help exteriorisation become > a stable > > > > > > ability. > > > > > > > > > > > > xriz > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 04.08.2010, 00:21 Uhr, schrieb Pete McLaughlin < > [email protected]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > After reading Dennis?s experiences on being exteriorized by LRH > auditing > > > > > > > several years ago I began trying to go exterior myself. > > > > > > > I found that I am holding so tight to my body that I am not > willing > > > > > > > while awake to move my point of view outside my body. > > > > > > > My early ideas on exteriorizing were that it must mean that > when I am > > > > > > > obsessing over some upset in my life and tossing back and forth > what had > > > > > > > happened and what I should have done I was interiorized as in > looking > > > > > > > in. When I walk in the park and smell the roses I am > exteriorized as I > > > > > > > am looking out. I now think this is incorrect. > > > > > > > When I first started running level 4 I hit on a classic > Dianetic engram > > > > > > > from my childhood that contained my getting hit in the head > which hurt > > > > > > > like hell while a neighbor girl said ?Leave me Alone?. > > > > > > > As I time broke this incident I felt terrific enthusiasm and > went > > > > > > > exterior in that incident and in my whole childhood. I can > still go to > > > > > > > the homes and streets I lived and played in at that time and > see them > > > > > > > vividly as recalls. The area had been blocked by the engram so > this was > > > > > > > an ability regained. > > > > > > > While this win was nice it did not give me the ability to go > exterior > > > > > > > now. For instance, if I want to look at the back door of my > home I can > > > > > > > call up a picture of it that feels like a picture of the last > time I > > > > > > > looked at the door but not look at it in the here and now. > > > > > > > A few days ago I was waking up in the morning while having a > vivid dream > > > > > > > in full Technicolor. I watched this scenery fade from vivid > while I was > > > > > > > asleep and not noticing my body to a recall while I began to > notice my > > > > > > > body. > > > > > > > Apparently I have a compulsion to use my bodies eyes to see. > The > > > > > > > compulsion is so strong that recalls or direct thetan viewing > of the > > > > > > > world fades out when I realize I have a body and I try to do > all my > > > > > > > seeing with the bodies eyes. > > > > > > > Have any of you noticed this mechanism? > > > > > > > Keep on TROMing > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Erstellt mit Operas revolution?rem E-Mail-Modul: > http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Trom mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Trom mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Trom mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Trom mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > _______________________________________________ > > Trom mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20100806/97fb44f3/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > End of Trom Digest, Vol 73, Issue 22 > ************************************ > -- Llewellin RG Jegels Founder of New Adventure Publishing "Turning Dreams into Reality" Cell:0715689338 Fax:0865408636 email: [email protected] web: www.newadventurepublishing.com
_______________________________________________ Trom mailing list [email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
