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Hello Bryan
In theory, the answer to your question is Yes, such an ability is possible. In
actual reality, however, I know of no one who has attained this ability.
cheers,
Leon
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From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 9 June 2012 12:00 AM
Subject: Trom Digest, Vol 95, Issue 3
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Today's Topics:
1. Message to Trom list (Kurt Rosa Bian)
2. Re: Trom Digest, Vol 93, Issue 17 (Paul Tipon)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 01:38:03 +0200
From: Kurt Rosa Bian <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TROM1] Message to Trom list
Message-ID:
<campw7oyuueb2dxvkranwf8wngl100hovu4arzdnuwkry_ko...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello,
My name is Bryan and I'm 17 years old. I live in the Netherlands. I have
been wondering something for quite some time. It's related to out of body
experience.
I put an experienced person in a room with the doors tighly locked, and the
room next to it is a room with a table and a notebook on it. I'll write
something on this notebook. A sentence such as: "The sky is blue and the
cars are red". Can the experienced person in the other room which has no
windows or whatever, get out of his body, guide himself to the other room
and actually read what's on the notebook? Can he read the sentence: "The
sky is blue and the cars are red" exactly as I wrote it down, with pen
colour etc. while he is not physically being there and reading it?
I have asked this question many times to other ex-Scientologists but
everytime I get a vague answer. Something like: You will see when you are
experienced enough, or what he sees is different for everybody. I am just
wondering if it is really possible to put someone in a room tightly locked,
and read something in another room without him physically being there.
Greetings,
Bryan
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 00:03:03 -0700
From: Paul Tipon <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 93, Issue 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Hi Martin and all,
It has been a while since my last post and only because I was off
pushing out the walls of the box. Traveling outside the box. I have
learned and now understand a lot more and that includes about myself
and what used to be mysteries about myself unto myself. Ha ha ha,
they are now no longer mysteries to me! I now find myself looking
into and learning more about myself than I actually knew or
considered there was about myself.
This all is just a Grand Adventure.
On Apr 25, 2012, at 2:35 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 22:44:53 +0200
> From: Martin Foster <[email protected]>
> To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 93, Issue 14
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi Paul,
> Answers/comments interspersed below:
>
> On 24/04/2012 21:58, Paul Tipon wrote:
>> I found several of your statements interesting. I am in the process
>> of doing Level 5, Meditating and reading Tom Campbell's Big Toe.
>> Those statements you made, rang familiar with me from all of my
>> studies across several disciplines, not only Scn and TROM.
>
> Have you also had a look at the Monroe institute and Monroe's views on
> things?
No I haven't. I just finished reading My Big Toe a couple of weeks
ago. I have also finished listening to Tom Campbell's latest lecture
in April of this year. At the moment I am half way thru the
discussions on Wiki.
>> On Apr 23, 2012, at 5:00 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Undermining the West Through Psychology (Martin Foster)
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>>
>>> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:07:39 +0200
>>> From: Martin Foster <[email protected]>
>>> To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Undermining the West Through Psychology
>>>
>>> On 20/04/2012 17:35, Pete McLaughlin wrote:
>>>> Nirvana's nice but what could you do if you chose to play a really
>>>> big game?
>>>
>>> Pete - Thanks for the interesting article and an especial thanks for
>>> expanding the TROM library.
>>>
>>> My thoughts on Nirvana:
>>>
>>> I think Nirvana and any and all states of being are relative to
>>> other
>>> states.
>>
>> Certainly this is true. There are a class of states and within that
>> class there are similarities and differences. I will continue below
>>>
>>> Some believe that wealth is Nirvana. Others an endless holiday.
>>> Still others a challenge or adventure. Some want absolute peace.
>>> Others want adventure and excitement.
>>>
>>> Most want to change their current status and condition and strive to
>>> do so.
>>>
>> To me Nirvana is to achieve the goal peace and serenity. Like opting
>> out of the MEST Universe game and going to cloud 9. It certainly
>> would be a nice place to stop, take a breather and just relax..
>
> What would you relax from? From TROM we know that enturbulations
> in our
> minds are due to conflicting postulates within ourselves - not from
> external sources.
>
>> One thing that I have found for my self is that one can improve
>> themselves, become a better individual. Then too one can become a
>> better Thetan/spirit too. I fully agree with your view that we all
>> both occupy the Theta/spiritual as well as the physical universe. It
>> is just that some are so wrapped up in the physical and then
>> knowledge/belief/understanding of small subsets there that many have
>> no concept of what is really going on. More simply, how many can
>> truly embrace the viewpoint of Thetan/spirit-Mind-Body and what that
>> really entails.
>
> I tend to agree - but what do you mean by becoming a better
> individual?
> Better by who's or what standard?
>
>>
>>> This physical universe is a subset of a superset non-physical
>>> universe and the beings who occupy the physical also partially
>>> occupy
>>> the non physical and vice versa. Every now and again we have a taste
>>> of something different and then want more of that state.
>>>
>> Now this really sounds like Campbell's Big Toe. I define it not as a
>> state but as an employment of one's inherent abilities which are not
>> fully being utilized or recognized. >From an external viewpoint
>> towards another I can see this condition of a Thetan/spirit being
>> called a 'state'. All of the spiritual improvement disciplines
>> basically embrace this concept and that one can improve their
>> abilities or for me actually more causatively employ their inherent
>> intrinsic abilities, employ themselves to the fullest as to what they
>> truly are.
>
> There are a few Monroe videos in which he speaks of "phases" and in my
> view and my struggle is to connect the phase memories. Campbell btw
> assisted Monroe.
I will be looking for these. Is 'phases' a good tag to use to home-
in on these particular videos?
>
>> The sky is not the limit, it goes well beyond that. In fact if truth
>> be known, we are capable of creating skies and creating beyond any
>> possible limitation, beyond what anyone could even imagine.
>
> Oh yes - yes - beautifully stated!
>>
>>> As long as we're here in the physical - I think we should enjoy what
>>> we have. Otherwise why are we here?
>>>
>> To learn, to understand, to improve, to reach higher states of
>> consciousness .... That's my belief. There is a lot here in the
>> physical that is just plain not understood and not only that but a
>> lot
>> here that we may not even be seeing.
>
> Ken Urquahart said in a post on Ivy once that "Each of us are
> living our
> own perfect lives."
>
>>
>>> If one accepts that both the physical and the non physical
>>> universe's
>>> integrity is protected by all of us, then to continue attempting
>>> some Nirvana is in fact violating our own agreement.
>>>
>> True and I agree with you but if one is efforting to get there, let's
>> have him get there and see if that's where he really wants to be for
>> eternity. Might as well be a rock for eternity. That would
>> accomplish the same thing.
>
> That's what I'm trying to do. lol - I am always searching - I can
> now be
> called a "searchologist"
>
>>
>>> Our intentions sometimes have unintended consequences but
>>> fortunately
>>> the protective mechanisms emplaced prevent us from interfering too
>>> greatly in each others self determinism.
>>
>> Yes, fears, egos and misplaced goals and purposes lead to minor,
>> entrapping, enprisoning games that limit and deny one the ultimate
>> game ... knowingness. I see that Dennis with his TROM is a means to
>> achieve the ultimate knowingness as well as meditation for that last
>> step to working in and discovering all there is to the non-physical
>> universe.
>
> TROM was to me the most freeing thing I ever did. And I do have
> limited
> whole track recall. Dennis suggests that within this universe we can
> know everything that has been brought into existence to know - I am
> still well below that!
>>
>>
>> I have been running the items Be Do Have as junior games and can see
>> that Be is parallel to Know as well as do is to create and of course
>> Dennis has Have as one of his junior games.
>
> I'd like to know more about that?
The 'mind' is an item and subject that can stand alone. We each set
up our own personal version of the 'mind' and because it is more or
less in the subconscious we are not aware of it and of what part it
is playing in our lives. For the most part it is past intentions,
past conclusions and in particular can get 'keyed in' and be a part
or all of one's reality at a given moment. In particular, those
moments of 'key in' are what Scn and TROM set forth to eliminate.
Because of the 'key in' mechanism they become over bearing and most
powerful.
Let's say that the 'key in' aspect is eliminated. At this point one
would have all of the other less over bearing, less powerful
postulates that one has made over time to now contend with. Scn and
especially TROM is a technique that eliminates these lesser, other
stuck (if you will) postulates. From what I can see and tell, these
stuck postulates are not just games conditions (your grand stuck
postulate) but are also all of those postulates that one did not win
at and decided to keep on trying at it until one does win. Just
think of all the times you couldn't be whatever and are still trying,
all the times you wanted to do something and are still trying and all
of the times you wanted to have or not have something and failed but
you continue to keep on trying.
Dennis with his TROM did get into this area and cover a lot of it but
not on the basis of a subject unto itself. Now being quite familiar
with TROM, I could see that one has the opportunity and could also
address these failed postulates that remain in the back of one's
mind, waiting there just for the right time (right whatever) to
become a winning postulate and then become simply a great or a nice
memory.
Wouldn't it be nice to have every new unit of time 'BE' a new unit of
time. May not be Nirvana but in no way is it lessor to Nirvana.
>> I have found your post interesting and challenging. Please post more
>> for discussion.
>
> Thank you and it's good comming with you. In terms of percentages -
> there are to few searchers and too many who have absolute certainty.
>
> Martin
Now having finished MBT, I am much more heavily into meditation and
advancing on that line. As I have said on this site in the past, I
believe that after Level 5, one must get into meditation where one
addresses just the being, the Thetan, the consciousness as the last
and final step. What is that consciousness, that Theta actually
trying to do or what should he be doing with his power of
postulates. Where is that supposed to lead?
There may be more after this but Tom Campbell and Geoffrey Filbert
are the only ones that have even gotten as far as to say that there
is a consciousness that is higher in each of us and resides well
above the OT Levels and addresses just what is Theta, what is
consciousness all by itself when it is completely separated, divorced
from the physical, the MEST Universe altogether.
Paul/Level 5 in progress
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