*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Logic is all well and good as Dennis describes it, but keep just a tiny
reservation on it because at some stage as you ascend to higher states logic
will fall away. It is inherently a limited concept - though in its own domain
it is a superb tool. Logic tends to follow the sequence of Cause and Effect ->
This is the cause of that and that is the effect of this and its its turn the
cause of those other things; and so on, with all causes preceding their
effects. At some stage this Cause/Effect sequence thing is going to collapse -
as when there is primary uncaused creation present, for example. And this
collapse will quite likely happen sooner than you expect it to.
Leon
________________________________
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2012 3:05 AM
Subject: Trom Digest, Vol 95, Issue 25
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Hubbard on the facts of life (Jurgen Kluft)
2. "Logic is the science of reason. (David M. Pelly)
3. Re: Hubbard on the facts of life (Martin Foster)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:04:02 +0200
From: Jurgen Kluft <[email protected]>
To: TROM list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Hubbard on the facts of life
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> He says, "Logic is the science of reason. I only mention it here because
> of the fact that as games become progressively more compulsive with a
> being his behavior becomes progressively more illogical. Also his regard
> for the subject of logic itself steadily lessens, until he eventually
> considers the subject to be both useless and incomprehensible. Thus, a
> person in a highly charged games condition will have a terrible time
> trying to study logic; he will endlessly burn the midnight oil trying to
> grasp even its most fundamental axioms, then, failing, will refute the
> whole subject."
This datum is so true that you can use it in life to identify the state people
are in.What i have seen in individuals is that they seem to avoid logic to
still get the thing/goal that they are after, no matter what. Seems that
importance makes theneed to 'reason' obsolete.
In many ways the above is kind of scary if you follow the drift.
-Jurgen
> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:24:57 +0200
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Hubbard on the facts of life
>
> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
> ************
> On 20 June 2012 04:12, Glen Strathy wrote:
> > Notice too how he presents his bald-faced opinion as if it were fact -
> > thus avoiding the need to present any real facts.
>
> Hi Glen - very true.
>
> The "normalized"Hubbard's logic was bound up in expansion of the Church.
>
> He rejected classical logic and persuaded his followers to also reject
> classical logic and accept his Data series.
>
> The result was that he used ad hominem (Appealing to personal
> considerations (rather than to fact or reason) in many of his "sermons"
>
> He used positioning in the same way politicians use it.
>
> The PTS/Sp, and Ethics tech is filled with ad hominem and similar
> fallacious statements which his followers slavishly follow.
>
> You will notice that Dennis promotes "Logic" and explains why some
> reject Logic.
>
> He says, "Logic is the science of reason. I only mention it here because
> of the fact that as games become progressively more compulsive with a
> being his behavior becomes progressively more illogical. Also his regard
> for the subject of logic itself steadily lessens, until he eventually
> considers the subject to be both useless and incomprehensible. Thus, a
> person in a highly charged games condition will have a terrible time
> trying to study logic; he will endlessly burn the midnight oil trying to
> grasp even its most fundamental axioms, then, failing, will refute the
> whole subject."
>
> Martin
>
> Martin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trom mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.newciv..org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:13:41 -0400
From: "David M. Pelly" <[email protected]>
To: TROM List <[email protected]>
Subject: [TROM1] "Logic is the science of reason.
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jurgen,
Thats for posting this.
It appears that if this was a thread that was going on privately, and you
posted it here.
What ever the case, there are a few points of it that I really liked.
Is the parenthesis quote beginning with "Logic is the science of reason." from
the TROM book?
If so, where? Can you give me the location, please?
I get the idea and a slight urge to reread the TROM book again, after a two or
three yr hiatus.
David
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:04:02 +0200
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Hubbard on the facts of life
*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
> He says, . I only mention it here because
> of the fact that as games become progressively more compulsive with a
> being his behavior becomes progressively more illogical. Also his regard
> for the subject of logic itself steadily lessens, until he eventually
> considers the subject to be both useless and incomprehensible. Thus, a
> person in a highly charged games condition will have a terrible time
> trying to study logic; he will endlessly burn the midnight oil trying to
> grasp even its most fundamental axioms, then, failing, will refute the
> whole subject."
This datum is so true that you can use it in life to identify the state people
are in.What i have seen in individuals is that they seem to avoid logic to
still get the thing/goal that they are after, no matter what. Seems that
importance makes theneed to 'reason' obsolete.
In many ways the above is kind of scary if you follow the drift.
-Jurgen
> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:24:57 +0200
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Hubbard on the facts of life
>
> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
> ************
> On 20 June 2012 04:12, Glen Strathy wrote:
> > Notice too how he presents his bald-faced opinion as if it were fact -
> > thus avoiding the need to present any real facts.
>
> Hi Glen - very true.
>
> The "normalized"Hubbard's logic was bound up in expansion of the Church.
>
> He rejected classical logic and persuaded his followers to also reject
> classical logic and accept his Data series.
>
> The result was that he used ad hominem (Appealing to personal
> considerations (rather than to fact or reason) in many of his "sermons"
>
> He used positioning in the same way politicians use it.
>
> The PTS/Sp, and Ethics tech is filled with ad hominem and similar
> fallacious statements which his followers slavishly follow.
>
> You will notice that Dennis promotes "Logic" and explains why some
> reject Logic.
>
> He says, "Logic is the science of reason. I only mention it here because
> of the fact that as games become progressively more compulsive with a
> being his behavior becomes progressively more illogical. Also his regard
> for the subject of logic itself steadily lessens, until he eventually
> considers the subject to be both useless and incomprehensible. Thus, a
> person in a highly charged games condition will have a terrible time
> trying to study logic; he will endlessly burn the midnight oil trying to
> grasp even its most fundamental axioms, then, failing, will refute the
> whole subject."
>
> Martin
>
> Martin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trom mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
> He says, "Logic is the science of reason. I only mention it here because
> of the fact that as games become progressively more compulsive with a
> being his behavior becomes progressively more illogical. Also his regard
> for the subject of logic itself steadily lessens, until he eventually
> considers the subject to be both useless and incomprehensible. Thus, a
> person in a highly charged games condition will have a terrible time
> trying to study logic; he will endlessly burn the midnight oil trying to
> grasp even its most fundamental axioms, then, failing, will refute the
> whole subject."
This datum is so true that you can use it in life to identify the state people
are in.What i have seen in individuals is that they seem to avoid logic to
still get the thing/goal that they are after, no matter what. Seems that
importance makes theneed to 'reason' obsolete.
In many ways the above is kind of scary if you follow the drift.
-Jurgen
> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:24:57 +0200
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Hubbard on the facts of life
>
> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
> ************
> On 20 June 2012 04:12, Glen Strathy wrote:
> > Notice too how he presents his bald-faced opinion as if it were fact -
> > thus avoiding the need to present any real facts.
>
> Hi Glen - very true.
>
> The "normalized"Hubbard's logic was bound up in expansion of the Church.
>
> He rejected classical logic and persuaded his followers to also reject
> classical logic and accept his Data series.
>
> The result was that he used ad hominem (Appealing to personal
> considerations (rather than to fact or reason) in many of his "sermons"
>
> He used positioning in the same way politicians use it.
>
> The PTS/Sp, and Ethics tech is filled with ad hominem and similar
> fallacious statements which his followers slavishly follow.
>
> You will notice that Dennis promotes "Logic" and explains why some
> reject Logic.
>
> He says, "Logic is the science of reason. I only mention it here because
> of the fact that as games become progressively more compulsive with a
> being his behavior becomes progressively more illogical. Also his regard
> for the subject of logic itself steadily lessens, until he eventually
> considers the subject to be both useless and incomprehensible. Thus, a
> person in a highly charged games condition will have a terrible time
> trying to study logic; he will endlessly burn the midnight oil trying to
> grasp even its most fundamental axioms, then, failing, will refute the
> whole subject."
>
> Martin
>
> Martin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trom mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:05:17 +0200
From: Martin Foster <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Hubbard on the facts of life
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
On 20 June 2012 14:04, Jurgen Kluft wrote:
> This datum is so true that you can use it in life to identify the
> state people are in.
> What i have seen in individuals is that they seem to avoid logic to
> still get the
> thing/goal that they are after, no matter what. Seems that importance
> makes the
> need to 'reason' obsolete..
>
> In many ways the above is kind of scary if you follow the drift.
True Jurgen,
It's scary!
They walk amongst us and I used to be one of them! lol
Martin
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