*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Hi Martin
Yeah, that post was written in a bit of a hurry - I could/should have made it
clearer. David already wrote to me about it.
The point I was getting at is that since Logic follows a Cause/Effect sequence
it is therefore confined to a Cause/Effect aspect of a universe. But any
universe is a creation created from before it existed and from outside of its
embrace. Such creation is therefore in a domain where the rules of cause and
effect - as present within the universe - do not apply. So when I said
"uncaused creation" I meant uncaused from WITHIN the creation. And the "higher
state" I referred to is then any state beyond the bopunds of the universe in
question.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.
cheers
Leon
________________________________
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 24 June 2012 12:44 PM
Subject: Trom Digest, Vol 95, Issue 34
Send Trom mailing list submissions to
[email protected]
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[email protected]
You can reach the person managing the list at
[email protected]
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Logic (Martin Foster)
2. Re: More on Logic (Martin Foster)
3. Re: All the World is a Stage... (Martin Foster)
4. Playing games (Slim)
5. Re: Perpetrators and victims (Martin Foster)
6. Re: Perpetrators and victims (Pete Mclaughlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:16:10 +0200
From: Martin Foster <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: [TROM1] Logic
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
Hi Leon,
What do you mean by higher states?
and
What is a primary uncaused creation?
and
What collapse am I and others going to miss out on?
Hell, I agree that pursuing logical thinking is not conducive to
meditation, prayer, chanting, or quieting a crying baby but what else to
use in the meantime?
Regards,
Martin
On 20 June 2012 23:10, Leo Swart wrote:
> Logic is all well and good as Dennis describes it, but keep just a
> tiny reservation on it because at some stage as you ascend to higher
> states logic will fall away. It is inherently a limited concept -
> though in its own domain it is a superb tool. Logic tends to follow
> the sequence of Cause and Effect -> This is the cause of that and that
> is the effect of this and its its turn the cause of those other
> things; and so on, with all causes preceding their effects. At some
> stage this Cause/Effect sequence thing is going to collapse - as when
> there is primary uncaused creation present, for example. And this
> collapse will quite likely happen sooner than you expect it to.
>
> Leon
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20120623/a139c09b/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:42:20 +0200
From: Martin Foster <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] More on Logic
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
On 21 June 2012 16:47, Glen Strathy wrote:
> The power of logic is undeniable. Nonetheless, I think Kurt Godel
> proved that logic has its limits.
Logic has no power - It is merely disciplined thinking.
Go"del's theorem's state: As I understand them??
Theorem 1.In any logical system one can construct statements that are
neither true nor false.
(Of course one can. Isn't this a variation of the liars paradox that
schoolkids play around with and which can be avoided in logic by not
making self referential statements which cause circles of logic)
and
Theorem 2: Therefore no consistent system can be used to prove its own
consistency. No proof can be proof of itself.
Does theorem 2 follow from 1? - It doesn't seem to? and why would you
want to prove postulates or axioms? Wouldn't a tautological system in
which one accepted the evidence of perception be more useful.
If you accept Go"del's incompleteness theorem then you must also accept
that the theorem itself is incomplete. lol
Martin
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20120623/90611aab/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:50:05 +0200
From: Martin Foster <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] All the World is a Stage...
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 22 June 2012 17:21, Colleen Peltomaa wrote:
> All the world's a stage,
> And all the men and women merely players;
> They have their exits and their entrances,
> And one man in his time plays many parts,
He was soo perceptive. Thanks for posting Colleen.
Martin
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:06:30 -0700
From: Slim <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: [TROM1] Playing games
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Ok David I know what you mean. Thx.
Someone asked, on an earlier post, if one can be in one room and see things in
another room while out of body . Lol . yes .
We have the native spiritual ability to see anything, any creation in the past
or present or the past and the present simultaneously. when you're really doing
well you can hold up three past scenes and the present scene simultaneously.
LOL.
You can compare it to a three year old playing chop sticks on the piano and
Mozart . The more you use time reaming the better you get at it and the better
you'll be able to see differences and similarities in your every day life too.
Effortlessly as well.
I can see others thoughts as if i am seeing my own thoughts, even the thoughts
of actors on tv or watching a movie recorded 25 years ago and know, ( not
predict ) what the actor will say next or what thoughts they are creating in
the past . All thoughts once created move backwards into the past universe
instantly.
Every creation, thought, every thing ever created in this universe can be
known. EVERYTHING. No thing is excluded. Makes no difference who created it
either.
Most call it intuition. I call it knowing.
Lottery numbers are created after the game is closed. Knowing them before they
are brought into existence would be in direct violation of universal law. Of
you want to leave the universe, know the numbers and then return to the
universe. Good luck. You'll need to a very abled being but its possible. And
you'll not be in violation of universal law sine you were out side the "city
limits" so to speak .
The TROM list is a universe within our universe. It has rules and laws like any
other universe. Pete has the ability to change some of them. Some others do
too. It too must follow the laws of the universe, that most call outer space.
When I know things created that now sit in the past universe, the knowing is
very fast and fleeting. My ability to see for longer durations isn't used, I
just know what I need to know and be done with it. As fast as snapping your
fingers. I don't care what color shoes one was wearing.
If you tell me about someone being injured some way , I can know how they felt
when it happened or how some one was feeling when they were creating a post on
this list . I can feel what they were feeling . But as soon as I do, I've seen
enough, and I leave the past after a second or so. I don't like feeling the
pain, mine or anyone else's.
But I only know the things I feel i need to know . When we are really really
high on the scale of ability ( and I'm not now but am on occasion after time
breaking a huge mass or series of huge masses) we can see smell touch feel
anything that has ever been created by ourself or anyone. Including others
thoughts. Thoughts are a created thing just like everything in the universe. We
can know any thought created by any person or life form for that matter but
you're gonna need to be high up in awareness.
You use TROM to get your awareness level up. We've spent a long time creating
reasons why we can't do things, been convinced by others , we can't do things.
And have spiraled up the postulate failure cycle chart. And spiraled down the
spiritual ability scale to the same degree.
So it's pretty simple. Use levels 2 3 4 and 5 and it's all good again.
There's no secret magic to this universe .. And it's as finite as a bag of
marbles too. It has a beginning and an end.. It's so simple, I find myself
laughing at it more and more and having more and more affinity with it more and
more too spiraling back up.
HAND
SLIM
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:06:30 +0200
From: Martin Foster <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Perpetrators and victims
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 23 June 2012 01:48, Pete Mclaughlin wrote:
> I can't speak for all other trommers or scientologists since i haven't polled
> them on their individual views.
>
> How do you feel about victims. Are they responsible for their state or
> blameless?
>
Hi Pete,
I think one should look at "victims" in terms of occurrence.
The term "Victim" used disparagingly means someone who is using his
status to obtain sympathy and reward.
In "WAR" we have victors and vanquished. In lesser games we speak of
winners and losers.
BUT the vanquished or losers do not necessarily see themselves as "victims"
They only become "victims" when they assume that identity.
Regards,
Martin
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:45:09 -0700
From: Pete Mclaughlin <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Perpetrators and victims
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Martin
i agree. Some people consider themselves victims and some do not.
The question is "is the loser in a game " responsible for his condition because
he put himself in a game that he has now lost; or was he not playing any game
and someone came along and smacked him so the loser was made the effect of a
game that he had zero idea that he was involved in or playing.
i take the position that the loser always has chosen to play a game and
therefor has put himself at risk of losing.
example, i am walking along minding my own business when an asteroid slams into
the earth right on top of me. i chose to live this life time at this time when
there was a very small chance of an asteroid hit so i am a victim of the
asteroid because i chose to live here now.
second exampe. i chose to live this life at this time as an American. America
is running an empire that acquires great wealth by stealing it from the rest of
the world. i therefor am playing the game of american citizen benefiting from
this theft and by the other flow other people who are not amerian are looking
for ways to get even or steal from america and americans. there is a very real
chance that i will become the victim in this game as were the people in the
Twin Towers in 2001. if so it is my fault for playing this very dangerous
game.
finally i take this point of view because i can only change what "I" do. i can
make sure that i pay people what i have agreed to pay and thus ensure that i am
not playing a "to steal" game. I can not join the military to avoid playing the
game "do what we say or we'll will murder you". i can audit all the games where
i blame others for mistreating me. blame is a sad game and i don't want to be
on the recieving end of it. i also do not want to give anyone the power to hurt
me which is the founding principle of the blame game.
For these reasons i hold that i am the captain of my soul, i am the master of
my fate and i will find out what i am doing that undermines this principle and
correct it.
Sincerely
Pete
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 23, 2012, at 1:06 PM, Martin Foster <[email protected]> wrote:
> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
> ************
> On 23 June 2012 01:48, Pete Mclaughlin wrote:
>> I can't speak for all other trommers or scientologists since i haven't
>> polled them on their individual views.
>>
>> How do you feel about victims. Are they responsible for their state or
>> blameless?
>>
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> I think one should look at "victims" in terms of occurrence.
>
> The term "Victim" used disparagingly means someone who is using his status to
> obtain sympathy and reward.
>
> In "WAR" we have victors and vanquished. In lesser games we speak of winners
> and losers.
>
> BUT the vanquished or losers do not necessarily see themselves as "victims"
>
> They only become "victims" when they assume that identity.
>
> Regards,
>
> Martin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trom mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Trom mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
End of Trom Digest, Vol 95, Issue 34
************************************
_______________________________________________
Trom mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
