*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Hi Martin,
Hi David,
M. I agree that belief prevents inspection as one tends to filter
perceptions through one's belief system.
D. I like the way you put that.
M. There are however somethings which we are not logically able to analyze.
D. Not from my experience. There is nothing that I have not been able to
logically analyze. If you can't do that, you do not have the right knowledge
on how to do so.
M. And in fact we don't have to.
D. I disagree. You are very wrong there. You missed the whole point of
Scientology. Hubbard said his whole objective of Scientology was he simply
wanted people to take a "look".
I would reword that and say, take an honest look, an impartial look, a pan
determined look if you will.
M. The word diagnosis is based on "gnosis" (mystery) or intuitive knowledge
of spiritual truths; said to have been possessed by ancient Gnostics.
D. A mystery is only something that has not been evaluated or honestly
evaluated. To not diagnose a mystery is intellectual ineptness.
M. Although many regard diagnosis as perfect - those who have experienced
an attempt at some diagnosis by a so called expert know that it is at
best a guess.
Somethings don't have to be analyzed - just witnessed.
D. I disagree. That is part of the problem, not analyzing, not evaluating.
Hubbard wisely said; any datum is only as good as it has been evaluated.
Evaluating gives understanding.
There is also a right way and a wrong way to do everything. Including
diagnose. Including reason. If you diagnose and reason through your
preconceived ideas, your beliefs, and such arbitraries, you will come to wrong
diagnoses and wrong reasoning. If you diagnose and reason via proven facts and
stay intellectually honest and impartial, (partial to only the highest truth
possible) you will eventually arrive at the highest truth possible.
M. Our language is
metaphorical
D. Language can be metaphorical, but I think you mean more "ambiguous". That
is where beliefs come in. Beliefs are ambiguous.
and truths are subject to interpretation
D. Interpreting truths is the wrong thing to do.
When you " interpret" something, ( in the way you intend or imply) you
(people) will "see" "interpret" through their "false and limiting data"
their " banks" their preconceived ideas", and this is the way a person goes
insane and stupid.
If I was brought up in a home where I was taught a lot of bullshit, a lot of
false and limiting data (beliefs), ( like I was and most people were) then I
would interpret wrong. I critiqued everything I knew and evaluated it, and
cleaned out all the BS, all the garbage I was taught.
[("the garbage in-garbage out" principle) I cleaned out the garbage in my mind.
I then filled my data base with facts and truths, which can all be proven. I
don't say anything which can't be proven. Now I think ( analyze) (evaluate)
with facts. That is called scientific thinking.
That is in alignment with what Hubbard said in Dianetics about the stuck seven,
and being programmed with "false and limiting data". The two first problems he
found with the mind. ]
This is the whole point of scientology. That is the meaning of , or the
purpose of "as-ising", which means to call a spade a spade. Tell it like it is.
Not what you think it is, which means what you were implanted with,( which
means the bullshit you were implanted with).
M. and generally
people prefer an illusion they can live with rather than the truth.
D. Yes, but that does not mean it is right. A whole bunch of wrongs do not
make a right.
The truth ( the honest truth) will set us free.
Illusions and beliefs will not set us free.
M. I have yet to come across an absolute "truth"
D. I recently came across a few words of wisdom that explain your point well:
Quote from Urantia:
IN knowledge alone, there can never be absolute certainty, only increasing
probability of approximation, but the religious soul of spiritual illumination
knows and knows now.
End.
That "knowingness" comes with improving your thinking process, by inspecting,
evaluating, critiquing, analyzing ( as-ising) everything you know and
everything you see, to determining the real truth, the honest truth of
everything you know and everything you see.
M. and have found that
convictions are a more dangerous enemy than lies.
D. Yes that is true, but that does not make it right.
Beliefs cause convictions.
That is why I say, beliefs and believing are forms of insanity, which is the
key datum ( re: Hubbard's bring order to chaos tech) that has to be isolated
and resolved (handled) to bring sanity to this world.
Everytime you use the words belief or believe it indicates various degrees of
defects or deficiencies of various kinds; in knowledge (education), in
understanding,( uncertainty) or lack of better vocabulary, better choice of
words, or something.
No one should ever believe anything, and never use the word believe or belief,
in terms of operating data.
It is the same as "garbage in-garbage out".
Beliefs in- garbage out.
Facts in-facts out.
Truth in- truth out.
I told you before: The truth is nothing more than the right answer to any
problem. But you did not cog on it.
The trap in this universe is: Every problem has truth ( a real truth) , many
partial truths, many sometimes truths, many almost truths, many conditional
truths, many false truths and many lies.
And the real truth is hidden and protected by many layers of lies and
deceptions to protect it from fools, swine and prostitutes.
The more important the truth, the better it is hidden and protected.
And you will never find the truth if you do not ask to be taught the truth.
If you ask, your teacher will appear only when you are ready.
David
Martin
On 20 July 2012 17:36, David M. Pelly wrote:
> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
> ************
>
>
>
> Hubbard said: Scientology is the study of knowledge and the science of
> knowing how to know.
>
> I have never heard any one ask the question: Know what?
>
> The only plausible right answer is: Knowing how to know the truth
> about anything.
>
> What is truth? The truth is nothing more than the right answer to any
> problem.
>
> To know means to perceive or understand as fact or truth; to apprehend
> clearly and with certainty.
>
> Believing is the function of raising an opinion or fabrication to the
> level of a fact without proof.
>
> Believing is what people revert to in the absence of facts.
>
> Believing is intellectual dishonesty, in other words, a form of lying.
>
> Believing is a lack of knowledge.
>
> Believing is a confession of ignorance.
>
> Believing means not knowing, or not having certainty.
>
> Believing means you do not know.
>
> Believing in something, means you do not know what you are talking about.
>
> It also means you do not know how to think, use logic and reason.
>
> It also means you have not done your homework, you have not completed
> the cycle of learning on the subject in order have certainty on the
> subject and know.
>
>
> Believing means you do not know the difference between right and wrong.
>
> In order to know the difference between right and wrong, you have to
> be able to reason and reason well.
>
> There is good reasoning and there is bad reasoning.
>
> You have to reason based on facts and not on hearsay, speculations,
> beliefs, opinions and the like.
>
> Insanity is the inability to reason, the inability to discern right
> from wrong, impaired judgment.
>
> Therefore believing is insanity.
>
> The function of believing is intellectual ineptness or grammatic
> laziness at the least, intellectual dishonesty in the midst and
> insanity at the worst.
>
>
> If you know, you have no reason to believe.
>
> If you believe, you don't know.
>
> Never comment on anything you are not qualified to comment on ( do not
> know) (cannot prove).
>
> If you have done Scientology, and still believe, you do not
> understand Scientology.
>
> In other words if you still believe after doing Scientology, you
> missed the point, you do not understand what Scientology is all about
> and therefore you flunked Scientology. You are not qualified to talk
> about Scientology.
>
> All believers are only intelligent enough to argue to defend their
> ignorance.
>
>
> David Pelly with big fire extinguisher in hand.
>
Hi David,
I agree that belief prevents inspection as one tends to filter
perceptions through one's belief system.
There are however somethings which we are not logically able to
analyze. And in fact we don't have to.
The word diagnosis is based on "gnosis" (mystery) or intuitive
knowledge of spiritual truths; said to have been possessed by ancient
Gnostics. Although many regard diagnosis as perfect - those who have
experienced an attempt at some diagnosis by a so called expert know
that it is at best a guess.
Somethings don't have to be analyzed - just witnessed. Our language is
metaphorical and truths are subject to interpretation and generally
people prefer an illusion they can live with rather than the truth.
I have yet to come across an absolute "truth" and have found that
convictions are a more dangerous enemy than lies.
Martin
On 20 July 2012 17:36, David M. Pelly wrote:
*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Hubbard said: Scientology is the study of knowledge
and the science of knowing how to know.
I have never heard any one ask the question: Know what?
The only plausible right answer is: Knowing how to know the truth about
anything.
What is truth? The truth is nothing more than the right answer to any
problem.
To know means to perceive or
understand as fact or
truth; to
apprehend clearly and with certainty.
Believing is the function of raising an opinion or fabrication to the
level of a fact without proof.
Believing is what people revert to in the absence of facts.
Believing is intellectual dishonesty, in other words, a form of lying.
Believing is a lack of knowledge.
Believing is a confession of ignorance.
Believing means not knowing, or not having certainty.
Believing means you do not know.
Believing in something, means you do not know what you are talking
about.
It also means you do not know how to think, use logic and reason.
It also means you have not done your homework, you have not completed
the cycle of learning on the subject in order have certainty on the
subject and know.
Believing means you do not know the difference between right and wrong.
In order to know the difference between right and wrong, you have to be
able to reason and reason well.
There is good reasoning and there is bad reasoning.
You have to reason based on facts and not on hearsay, speculations,
beliefs, opinions and the like.
Insanity is the inability to reason, the inability to discern right
from wrong, impaired judgment.
Therefore believing is insanity.
The function of believing is intellectual ineptness or grammatic
laziness at the least, intellectual dishonesty in the midst and
insanity at the worst.
If you know, you have no reason to believe.
If you believe, you don't know.
Never comment on anything you are not qualified to comment on ( do not
know) (cannot prove).
If you have done Scientology, and still believe, you do not understand
Scientology.
In other words if you still believe after doing Scientology, you missed
the point, you do not understand what Scientology is all about and
therefore you flunked Scientology. You are not qualified to talk about
Scientology.
All believers are only intelligent enough to argue to defend their
ignorance.
David Pelly with big fire extinguisher in hand.
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