************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************ Hi Martin,
On Aug 7, 2012, at 3:11 AM, [email protected] wrote:
That's a really good one. I enjoyed the laugh. Yes, that would be a great argument. Of course I always win my own arguments but it would be fun. LOLHi Paul,If ever you have a lucid dream and someone you are talking to says, "When I end this dream you will disappear!" You could have an argument as to who will disappear first. LOL
I didn't know LRH did out of body work. He was very disparaging about Astral travel. The only semi-scientologist I know who does Astral and remote viewing is Ingo Swan. The chief of the RV program at Stanford was Hal Putthoff. He was a Scientologist. Ingo eventually rejected Scientology. He hoped it would reveal more about psi. He made his own discoveries.That is how I see that Ron got a lot of his Whole Track data. I also ran into a piece that he wrote talking about his 'guide' and his postulates. If you will listen to RJ 67, Ron's tape about his OT III research, you will hear him say, "not my particular incident". That's why I also feel he had to go to the Canary Islands to contact ridges from that incident in order to run it and get the data. It is also why I say from my knowingness and others too have stated that he didn't get it completely right or fully complete it. There is also a lot of info about Ron and Alister Crowley, 'The' guru of the time (before Dianetics) of mysticism.
Many are stuck in the old adage of "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to see it - did it fall?"To me, not only that but we don't read digital code, ones and zeros, we integrate and get analog and then pile on symbols and/or metaphors after that.Our reality is perception of data and we comm in terms of symbols or metaphors.
That we may not be in a position to receive data does not mean that the data does not exist.Well, yes. If we are in a Matrix, a virtual reality and one could say we all create all of our experiences. Then you could go around being a fantastic solipsist given that you only operate off of experiences.We and others interpret data received in terms of own metaphors and or symbols based on experience.We create and experience simultaneously. If one interprets all experience as creation then the solipsists have a point. LOL.
Yes, when I came across that data and that theory in MBT, it explained a lot to me that I had experienced and just like the one and two slot, particle/wave experiment, I can see no other explanation. Not there won't be but this theory/explanation is totally and fully sufficient.I agree that the universe is a probabilistic virtual reality.
We do have power of choice - but only within the bounds of the rule- set and our perceptive abilities.Don't forget the psi uncertainty. I have myself personally, many times gone beyond what is considered the bounds of the rule-set. And like Tom says, it can be stretched and I am not the only one to either witness or exact a stretch of the rule-set. Now for God like phenomena ... I can see the rule-set holding true. But more on that later.
What we are currently experiencing in this rule set, we experience using body perceptions, which give us a common reality. Folks with different antenna attached to their sculls may perceive more - or maybe less.I'm still in the process of erecting my own personal, humdinger of an antenna. OT drills, OT knowingness expansion and OT understanding. You got any other OT stuff I may have missed?
This universe or system is set up to help us evolve. (My current belief)
Me too.
Hubbard's view that we are super beings who started existence before time began seems to me a delusion of grandeur which gave his followers a feeling of superiority. His whole OT thingamabob is based on being able to violate the rule set.Yes and I have always felt that was a great way to cave someone in. You do all of the OT Levels and you're supposed to be OT ... I don't see that it has been accomplished yet. Not even Ron got there or if he did, it wasn't permanent or long lasting up to the end or even past his 'this lifetime'.
Violating the rules of the physical universe can be done but because the intent to do so stems from outside the universe (outside used metaphorically) - no certain objective evidence can be obtained.Now here's where I come in and say ... Yes it can if enough get together and create an entirely new universe for just them to occupy or that enough in this particular universe come to new agreements on what the rule-set is. And of course all the ones that didn't agree ... we'll just call them solipsists. What the heck they'll never know anything changed anyway. To them it'll just be the latest system upgrade if they can even be aware of that.
See, now you got me going again. Because what I just said could in fact be happening every other moment and it's just that you and I and everyone else who is not delusional or 100% certified Thetans/spirits are solipsists to the degree that we don't know that something all encompassing, major and totally different just occurred. Who was that guy who said ignorance is bliss. Did he know something that he hasn't told us??????? Is he still over there somewhere in the wings LOL.
In Scientology, mental compromise is treason. There is no search for truth, only the enforced acceptance of totalitarian dogmas and cliches.I agree. But I also recognize that there was a lot of truth discovered in the early pioneering days which is now fairly ignored with the new Bridge and OT Levels. Not to mention the fact that management has their own fish to fry. Never mind that you and I would like a chance at frying fish. But then I guess that's what brought the like of you and me here to this site.
Paul/Level 5 in progress ... not only resolving my mind but now having to resolve my solipsisms thanks to you. LOL Will I ever be able to return to bliss?Confusedly yours, Martin
On 07 August 2012 07:36, Paul Tipon wrote:************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************ On Aug 6, 2012, at 11:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:On Aug 6, 2012, at 8:31 AM, [email protected] wrote:On 06 August 2012 08:18, Paul Tipon wrote:Oh yeah. You're one of those guys eh. ;-) Yes, I can see that point but also think there are enough as it is. Now the funny thing is thatBut then I still question if there really is a 'you' out there or isall of this just me and my magnificent imagination)Yes and it surprises me that there are not more of us solipsists. lolif you have any kind of an inkling that a Matrix, a virtual environment actually exists ... There is a whole lot of data that there is. Did you know that LRH was into this with his out of body work? I know for myself that solipsis cannot be totally denied. It explains too much both physically and scientifically. You know, all of that mystic stuff that not even Ron talked about but in fact washeavily into. There are mysteries and anomalies in science and of thephysical universe that only lend themselves to a solipsis configuration to explain how 'that' can be.Yes, I can see where solipsism is in the here and now. It's just thatI'm to smart, knowing and can see across the heavens and Earth, backward, forward and present. So I'm somewhere between all knowing and not knowing at all. What an interesting spot, huh. Proof there is with a skepticism and that it just may not be that way but it sure can explain a lot when nothing else can. For me, I just know that it is true. I then look around and sure nuff, there they are but know that I am not one of them but creepy, that we all may be inhabiting a solipsis. It's just that people like me (ahem!) can see above and beyond the solipsis while still playing the solipsis game. In solipsis ragtime no less.To me the greatest evidence against solipsism is that there are so many differing points of view each with its created ego which we hold onto,with our past, to hold onto the identity we created to interact withothers. Some call it ego. Preceding ego will be found the postulate that created the identity "to be known".I agree that ego is a component. But then wouldn't an ego keep one insolipsis when there actually might be a virtual reality but we're not supposed to know that. And there you have it, the basic key ... toknow. Can we be so sure that we know all there is to know. Of coursenot but then this is not an argument for solipsis but a potentiallypossible situation. Just think, the MEST Universe could possibly be asolipsis. So there we are once again. What is real for you is real for you and it may not be real to anybody else. oops, how did I do that ??? nowI'm right back into solipsis. I thought I was climbing out of it, outof a virtual and into something real. Now if I could only find out which reality I'm lost in .............MartinPaul/Level 5 in progress
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