*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
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[Replay from: Ant Phillips
<[email protected]> So remember most of the
addresses et cetera are out of date]
Subject:
Replay B10
Date:
Fri, 27 Feb 1998 06:59:41 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10)
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Msg : 79 of
289
Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : ASC Missions
Group
236/174.10 Thu 06 Apr 95
20:20
To : Flemming Funch
<[email protected]>
Sat 08 Apr 95
06:37
Subj : Re: Perfect Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: [email protected]
From: ASC Missions Group <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Perfect Time
Flemming,
Thanks for posting an alternate view on the question.
Since you are a TROMmer and I am not, I'll yield the point to you as it
may apply to TROM.
Maybe both approaches should be tested? I suspect there's still good to
be had from my recommendations.
-0-
On Fri, 7 Apr 1995, Flemming Funch wrote:
> At 3:48 PM 4/6/95 +0300, Dimitry Ivakhnenko wrote:
> >I am interested in the goals time usage since I am translating
TROM in
> >Russian. As I understand "To be known" and "To
know" are finished goals.
> >What about "To become known" and "To learn"
? I mean, must the goals in
> >packages be finished? What is preferable?
>
> No, the goals are not finished. That is kind of the whole point. One
wants
> it but doesn't have it. Which is why one is creating the opposite at
the
> same time.
>
> "To be known" sort of means "I really must become
known, but right now I am
> not".
>
> - Flemming
>
>
>
o
o
> / \------------------ Flemming A. Funch
------------------/ \
> / * \ World Transformation/New Civilization/Whole
Systems / * \
> / * *
\
[email protected]
/ * * \
> o-------o
------
http://www.protree.com/worldtrans/--------o-------o
>
>
>
Speaker for Acceptance <[email protected]>
Acceptance Services Center
Acceptance is appreciation without significance.
| (415) 964-3436
Appreciation is willingness to experience as-is.
--8-- PO Box 390696
Significance is interpretation, or added-on meaning. | Mtn
Vw CA 94039
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Ä TROM (2:235/159.10)
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Msg : 80 of
289
Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Dustin W. Carr
<[email protected]> Sun 08 Jan
95
05:57
To : trom-l
<[email protected]>
Sun 08 Jan 95
21:23
Subj : Time Breaking and stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Hello,
I have a few comments relating to the more recent posts. I would
like to say that TROM has generally worked quite well for me,
despite having little formal auditing (< 25 hours) beforehand. I
was able to get gains steadily to the end of level three, but I did
run into huge problems there. I wound up in constant restimulation
of something out of this world (A universe entrance point that was
quite painful). There was about a week that I went to bed at night
uncertain if my body would live until morning. It took a great
deal of energy to just keep a foot in this reality.
I eventually made it through this stumbling block. I have slowed
down a lot on my trom auditing, but I still have cognitions steadily
throughout my days.
I have developed a couple of useful 'tools' for dealing with life
using time-breaking. I have found that for pains and other
unpleasant
sensations, time-breaking can be very helpful. I am not talking
about
a dianetics sort of time breaking, instead I mean time-breaking the
pain itself. I have found that the pain that we 'feel' is usually
much more intense than what the body is actually feeling. This is
due to restimulation. So just compare the pain you feel with the
pain
that the body is actually experiencing in present time. I have
found
this to be amazingly effective and fast. Many times faster than
dianetics or the 'assists' developed by Ron. I have had some minor
pains disappear entirely, and more intense pains greatly alleviated.
Some of my success in doing this may be due to my ability to time
break things quite easily, so this may not work for someone who has
not made headway on level 3 yet.
This same technique is useful for handling extreme temperatures as
well (having just moved from Oklahoma to upstate New York I found
this
necessary :) )
I hope to make progress on level 4 over the next few weeks.
Happy tromming.
Dustin
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Ä TROM (2:235/159.10)
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Msg : 81 of
289
Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Antony
Phillips
236/174.10 Thu 13 Apr 95
11:50
To :
[email protected]
Fri 14 Apr 95
07:22
Subj : forwarded Letter from Judith Methven - mainly on TROM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Antony Phillips)
Subject: forwarded Letter from Judith Methven - mainly on TROM
The Chimes
William Street
Ryde PO33 3EA
Isle of Wight
2 April 1995
Dear Antony
Thank you for your letter and the reports on Internet about TROM
that
you sent to me. I found them most interesting. There were also
some
good writings by Flemming that were not related to TROM and I found
these very interesting too, and wrote to him to say so. I received
a letter back from him a long while later which surprised me because
I think he only communicates through Internet, as this is easy,
quick
and cheap. Anyway, I appreciated the courtesy of his reply.
I finished working with TROM some while ago, though will probably
go back to it for a re-read when I have time. Thought I would
mention
the following as these were things that came from working with
TROM.
Trom worked well for quite a time until I hit the following obstacle.
In
some of the undesirable games that I was playing, it was easy to
find
the postulate and to locate its complimentary, but I COULDN'T TRULY
ACCEPT the complimentary postulate - it didn't really find its mark.
It
wasn't a case of not getting the wording right, it was more a case
of simply not being willing to accept the complimentary postulate
- it was not acceptable. So I was stuck, and the game continued
because
the feelings and emotions were unchanged. (I was actually in quite
a restimulated state, from using TROM).
I found the best way through this was two way communication with
Leonard
(he's a wise soul!). He helped me look at various views of the
situation,
while remembering the basic laws of life (these are sound rules to
remember when one is in a sticky situation!)
At the end of this run we came to realize that what we had been
tackling
was actually the very basic troubles of my case, which had been
exposed
by TROM. But I will be honest and say I don't think I could have
got through on my own - the input of an experienced auditor was most
necessary for the most difficult bits. I was able to stir up a lot
with TROM but was not always experienced enough to audit it out.
Therein,
to me, lies the danger of TROM.
The frequent use of time breaking, repairing importances, and
looking
for and using the complimentary postulate, has become second nature
to me now. I find this most useful in general living and am often
able to help others too in that I can gently prod them into
time-breaking
or repairing importances.
I learnt a great deal from TROM and had a good number of major
realisations.
There! I think I have now finished telling you of my journey with
TROM.
A small point but I thought I would mention it as it meant a lot to
me. In one of the letters you sent some time ago you mentioned that
often you did not find auditing easy, especially with a new pre-clear.
I
thought this very honest and open of you and it made me feel better,
because I experience similar things...and thought it was just me!
Thank
you.
I read The Holographic Universe a short while ago, which I found
great. It
required a lot of attention in the reading, but was most interesting
and enlightening. I'm so glad you called Leonard's attention to
it.
There is always a lot to read, but I find I the best education is
putting what you know into practice...this makes things real and
workable...so
I try and live my life quite carefully in that I'm vigilant and look
for what I'm doing wrong and acknowledge what I'm doing right.
Leonard
has been very helpful in his guidance here...he is most careful and
conscientious in his guidance and I truly appreciate this.
I've put Leonard's last article CASE COMPLETION AND EDUCATION on the
disk after this letter, and also the review of Flemming's
TRANSFORMATIONAL
DIALOGUES (which took a lot of reading!).
Looking forward to seeing you in May.
Best Wishes
Judith
*************
(In May there is an independent conference in England)
******************'forwarded to TROM-L by
/ÄÄÄ\
| Ant
|
Antony A Phillips
\ÄÄÄ/
Internet address:
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
--- GoldED 2.42.G0214+ -
--
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Ä TROM (2:235/159.10)
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Msg : 82 of
289
Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Dimitry
Ivakhnenko
236/174.10 Fri 14 Apr 95
09:41
To :
[email protected]
Sat 15 Apr 95
07:47
Subj : Re: Letter from Judith Methven
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: [email protected]
From: Dimitry Ivakhnenko <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Letter from Judith Methven
Judith Methven wrote:
>Trom worked well for quite a time until I hit the following
obstacle. In
>some of the undesirable games that I was playing, it was easy to
find
>the postulate and to locate its complimentary, but I COULDN'T
TRULY
>ACCEPT the complimentary postulate - it didn't really find its
mark. It
>wasn't a case of not getting the wording right, it was more a
case
>of simply not being willing to accept the complimentary
postulate
>- it was not acceptable. So I was stuck, and the game continued
because
>the feelings and emotions were unchanged. (I was actually in
quite
>a restimulated state, from using TROM).
Excerpts from TROM:
Affinity is the willingness to create complementary postulates.
Reality is the degree to which complementary postulates are
created.
Communication is the action of creating complementary
postulates.
I'd like to share my humble experience. Life and TROM became much
easier
thanks to the small everyday exercises in creating communication,
affinity, admiration, granting of beingness. I came to creating
(imagining) communication with the objects, people (real and
imagined),
thoughts, feelings, restimulations, situations, pains, etc. etc.
Knowledge about the complementary postulates helps a lot. It's so
easy
and pleasant to live in a friendly world. I think that the exercises
in
creating complementary postulates fit in TROM very well.
Cheers,
--
Dimitry Ivakhnenko
Phone:+7 (044)
224 7323
E-mail: [email protected]
PO Box 298-9 Kiev 252034 Ukraine
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Msg : 84 of
289
Snt Loc Hld Scn
From : Antony
Phillips
2:235/159.10 Sat 15 Apr 95
12:10
To : For Judiths
info
Sat 15 Apr 95
12:10
Subj : forwarded Letter from Judith Methven - mainly on TROM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
*** repeating a msg posted in (my editors) area NETMAIL (Fido-style
Netmail
Area). That is, it was a private message to me, and was not sent to all
the
others on the list.
Thursday April 13 1995 19:48, Flemming Funch wrote to Antony
Phillips:
FF> Apparently-to: [email protected]
FF> From: [email protected] (Flemming Funch)
FF> Subject: Re: forwarded Letter from Judith Methven - mainly
on TROM
FF> At 10:50 AM 4/13/95 +0100, Antony Phillips wrote:
(Actually he is quoting my sending of Judiths letter: beggining with
FF>> are
Flemming himself)
>> A small point but I thought I would mention it as it meant
a lot to
>> me. In one of the letters you sent some time ago you
mentioned that
>> often you did not find auditing easy, especially with a
new
>> pre-clear. I thought this very honest and open of you and
it made me
>> feel better, because I experience similar things...and
thought it was
>> just me! Thank you.
FF> Just wanted to comment there, as I didn't answer when you
talked about
FF> it in ACT.
(Flemming is talking about another list - actually meant for upper
level
confidential material, but I wrote in it concerning handling of a
new
preclear -
explanatory note by ANT)
FF> I actually find it easiest to deal with brand new people.
Mostly
FF> because I don't have any particular procedures in mind that
HAVE to
FF> work, and a new person has no particular expectation on what
will
FF> happen or how it will be done. So, anything that gets them a
bit
FF> uptone is good news to them.
FF> I have more trouble with people who've done a lot of other
practices,
FF> including Scientology, and who expect that they can only
change if
FF> particular actions are done.
FF> With a new person I would just do it in a coffee shop style.
Sitting
FF> down talking with them, getting an idea what is going on
with them,
FF> and when I find an angle that I have a fitting tool for, I
use that.
FF> If it doesn't work very well, I try something else, until I
find
FF> something that works well and leads to a result.
FF> I always get a good result in the first session. I would
attribute
FF> that more to my attitude and my willingness to be flexible
than to my
FF> overall skill as an auditor.
FF> If I insist that I have to be able to do a repetitive
process or R3R
FF> with a new person, that is a bit scary, in that I can't be
sure that
FF> it will work. But I can know for sure that SOMETHING will
work. If
FF> nothing else, just sitting listening to what the person has
to say.
FF> - Flemming
FF>
o
o
FF> / \-+--+--+--+--+--+- Flemming A. Funch
-+--+--+--+--+--+-/ \
FF> / * \ World Transformation/New Civilization/Whole
Systems / * \
FF> / * *
\
[email protected]
/ * * \
FF> o-+--+--o
-+--+-
http://www.protree.com/worldtrans/-+--+---o-+--+--o
FF> -+- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
Greetings,
/ÄÄÄ\
| Ant
|
Antony A Phillips
\ÄÄÄ/
Internet address:
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l, IVy lists
[End of Replay]
-- [Ant's present time email signature]
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