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The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
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Resent 17th of October 2015 by [email protected]
Subject:
Replay B12
Date:
Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:08:10 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
[Note, addresses may be out of date in any reply. Note that Judith
Methven is now on Internet and is on this list
Ant, Trom-l Admin]
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10)
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Msg : 103 of
289
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From : Antony
Phillips
236/174.10 Wed 07 Jun 95
16:55
To :
[email protected]
Thu 08 Jun 95
07:34
Subj : 31st May from Judith Methven
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Antony Phillips)
Subject: 31st May from Judith Methven
Judith Methven asked me to put the following on the list.
To the newcomers, I would say that Judith is not on Internet. I have sent
her
all or most of TROM-L, and she has put on TROM-L (via me) a transcript of
a
tape she got from Dennis regarding a question she had. She has never been
in
Scn, and got her scn knowledge from the book Excalibur Revisited by
Geoffrey
Filbert, communication with Leonard Dunn, and auditing from Leonard
Dunn.
Leonard reckons she is complete on TROM (as far as I remember - she has
done
all levels).
I visited her and Leonard at the beginning of May (there was a conference
in
London). Incidentally I am editor of the magazine International
Viewpoints in
which various pieces on TROM have appeared (including an article from
Judith),
and any one who does not subscribe can have details from me.
Here is her letter with the beginning cut out:
******************************
The Chimes
William Street
Ryde PO33 3EA
Isle of Wight
31 May 1995
(private letter omitted)
Please could you put this on to the Internet:
It rather astonishes me that some people want to change the original
form of TROM so much and others have derogatory remarks to make
about
Dennis. (Internet TROM channel) There can be no doubt that Dennis
'knew his stuff' and gave out something that works for quite a few
people. I do hope that the original form of TROM will always be
available,
even if there are lots of additions and explanations at the end.
After
all, Dennis did state in TROM that he didn't want it changed. See
'Finale', page 17.
Thank you, Flemming for your comments regarding trying coffee shop
auditing. It made me realize you really have to know your
techniques
well (I have work to do here), and fully engage your perceptions.
The
other day I did an informal session which went really well. I
forgot
myself and just went out to help the other with my knowledge and
presence
as much as possible (intuitive work, I guess). It worked for the
other lady and was marvellously energising for me too.
In reply to Flemming's query some time ago about what people do for
RI, this is what I do. I take a scene that I really like and go
through
it very intensely, so that I generate strong feelings. This can be
something I have already experienced in the past, something I hope
to experience sometime ahead, or some state that is timeless.
For example, the few minutes after I saw my new baby girl for the
first time. The amazement of how different she was to my first
baby,
and the joy when I looked into her eyes and saw 'that she had the
whole world in her eyes' The knowledge that she is more than living
up to that promise and how fortunate I am to have her companionship.
These
feelings make me glow with happiness and to me are good RI.
Or, the warm, knowing, relaxed feeling of being in, above and beyond
time, that nothing matters really...its all a game...so relaxing.
Or
creating wonderful rainbows, or huge parks full of amazing trees and
plants and colours, or having the companionship of like minded
beings,
or talking to the devas. Of learning interesting things, and having
fun. Or being on the cutting edge (for this time, anyway) showing
people how to create their own win/win games, etc.
The bottom line of these scenes is that they create feelings of well
being...a certain state of mind...that's my RI.
Antony, I've signed on for Ulrich's auditing course in July in London.
Hope
I might see you there.
Thanks so much for putting the above info on to the Internet and for
sending me a disk with info. I really appreciate it and hope Kim
gets his set up going soon. (He can be a bit unreliable). If you
have time I would love a return disk with update info on it.
After this is an article by Leonard on Responsibility for Ivy.
Very best wishes,
Judith
wp5.1
Greetings,
/ÄÄÄ\
| Ant
|
Antony A Phillips
\ÄÄÄ/
Internet address:
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
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Ä TROM (2:235/159.10)
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Msg : 104 of
289
Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From :
[email protected]
236/174.10 Wed 07 Jun 95
16:57
To :
[email protected]
Thu 08 Jun 95
07:34
Subj : Survey of results
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: Survey of results
I would like very much to hear from anyone who has completed any
of the levels of TROM. I would like to know such things as
1) What levels have you completed (if any)?
2) How long did it take you to complete each level?
3) What kind of results did you achieve?
4) Do you still practice the TROM exercises?
5) What tips or suggestions do you have for other TROMmers?
Any other information you care to supply would be welcome. I will
compile a summary of the results I receive and make these
available on this mailing list. You need not give your name, but I
would like to have an identifier so that your answers will not get
mixed up in later versions of the survey.
Bill
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Msg : 110 of
289
Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From :
[email protected]
236/174.10 Mon 12 Jun 95
17:44
To :
[email protected]
Tue 13 Jun 95
07:35
Subj : Recent wins
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: Recent wins
I just started TROM a few weeks ago, and I am amazed at the case
change I'm getting with it. I'm just on Level 2 at this point, but
I've
had several sessions where I've gone exterior.
I'm still having some difficulty with the theory. The chart of
Postulate
Failure seems difficult to grasp. The valence shifts in particular
don't seem intutive to me.
Can anyone tell me about how long it has taken them to complete
the various levels? I realize this must be different for different
people,
but I'm just curious as to the time frame.
Bill
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Msg : 112 of
289
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From : "Dustin W.
Carr"
236/174.10 Tue 13 Jun 95
06:42
To : trom-l
<[email protected]>
Wed 14 Jun 95
05:36
Subj : Re: Recent wins
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: [email protected]
From: "Dustin W. Carr"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Recent wins
The postulate failure chart is best understood by just rereading the
theory from time to time. It is not vital to understand until levels 4
or 5. The transcript from Dennis's tape is also very helpful, as is the
reference that Homer gave. I can make the transcript available to you
when you need it.
I am sure the amount of time spent on each level varies considerably from
person to person. I spent a total of about 7 hours on level 2, others I
know have spent considerably more. (This is not counting RI)
Level 3 was about 30-40 hours, and level 4 about 20 hours.
Level 5 - 80 hours and I am almost done with my first trip through the
chart.
Dustin
On Mon, 12 Jun 1995 [email protected] wrote:
> I just started TROM a few weeks ago, and I am amazed at the
case
> change I'm getting with it. I'm just on Level 2 at this point,
but I've
> had several sessions where I've gone exterior.
>
> I'm still having some difficulty with the theory. The chart of
Postulate
> Failure seems difficult to grasp. The valence shifts in
particular
> don't seem intutive to me.
>
> Can anyone tell me about how long it has taken them to complete
> the various levels? I realize this must be different for
different people,
> but I'm just curious as to the time frame.
>
> Bill
>
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Ä TROM (2:235/159.10)
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Msg : 113 of
289
Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From :
[email protected]
236/174.10 Tue 13 Jun 95
18:49
To :
[email protected]
Wed 14 Jun 95
07:50
Subj : Formal introduction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: Formal introduction
Antony,
True, I rushed right out onto the TROM mailing list,
enthusiastically
proclaiming my delight at the unexpectedly powerful results I've
been
getting, without so much as passing nod at the trom-l inhabitants
:)
I am an ex-scientologist, as you guessed. I was a Qual auditor on
staff at the Detroit org in the early 70's. Only had about 75 hours
done on me personally, mostly R3R and Integrity processing. Never
Did any grades or OT stuff. Got out in 1973, and
haven't been involved in it since. Only a few months ago I found
out
about the Free Zone, and I've become very active in it since
then.
I write software for a living, this body is 44 years old, and I brush
my
teeth regularly -- uppers first, then lowers. I chose the screen
name
Ciric (a Yugoslavian name) because someone elsehad the audacity
to use my full name as a screen name on America Online.
All right, I played your game. Now it's your turn to make yourself
known, and I'll know.
Bill Maier
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Msg : 116 of
289
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From : Antony
Phillips
2:235/159.10 Fri 23 Jun 95
08:01
To :
[email protected]
Fri 23 Jun 95
08:01
Subj : Re: Re Translations - letter from Terry Scott
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
=============================================================================
* Forwarded by Antony Phillips (2:235/159.10)
* Area : NETMAIL
* From : "Joachim H. Steingrubner PhD" , 236/174.10 (Thursday
June 22 1995
10:13)
* To : Antony Phillips
* Subj : Re: Re Translations - letter from Terry Scott
=============================================================================
Apparently-to: [email protected]
From: "Joachim H. Steingrubner PhD" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Re Translations - letter from Terry Scott
(Ant, pls forward to whomever if you want)
1. "The map is not the territory" (Korzybski)
Even if the map is carefully drawn and laid out as it might
be the case with TROM, it is still a map.
2. If a contemporary text cannot be translated into other languages,
that means the author did a lousy job of communicating his
issues.
3. Dennis claims that he created TROM for the purposes of attaining
the goal of 'clearing the planet'. He refutes the approach
of
a 'Church' with the same claim.
If TROM is not getting distributed, Dennis' wish would
certainly
have no chance of success.
Let's say, TROM has the potential to 'clear the planet'.
If so, it would be highly SUPPRESSIVE to obstruct its
distribution.
The latest I heard, Terry sold around a 100 copies of
TROM.
How's that for a mass marketing ?
Again, holding back something one believes to be good for
mankind
is the worst possible thing a person can do.
4. Ant said, 'a large percentage of the worlds population' does
not speak English. I would say 'only a small percentage of the
worlds
population' does speak English, and 'only a VERY small percentage
of the
worlds population' speaks English so well that 'key concepts
[that]
are sometimes very fine and exact ... expressed .. .very
carefully in
English.' can be understood.
5. As regarding Ann Stephens, as far as I know, contacts were
attempted
but she never responded so far.
6. Per Terry 'translation [..] would be unethical and illegal'. His
statement, from a legal standpoint, is nonsense.
7. Dennis himself was VERY WELL AWARE of Internet activities, and
he exchanged mail with (at least) me, Homer, and Flemming
about
the subject. He did get summaries from the first days of
TROM-L
and posts from a.c.t on the subject.
8. Dennis' own responses to questions of Marc and me (both Germans)
showed a complete lack of understanding for languages other
than
English. Even to the danger of being rude and disrespectful,
he
seemed to not understand basic things about 'language' in
general,
hence, perhaps, his position on translations.
9. I'm all for leaving the English TROM untouched. If at all, a
version should be written from scratch that refrains from
using
scientologese and that has more digestable explanations.
10. Dennis states, in TROM, that it would be 'quite free' in
especially
because of its antithetical character to the 'Church' of
which
he was a member for many, many years.
The _expression_ 'quite free' is, of course, semantical
nonsence.
11. In his last letter to me, just about 10 days before his
'departure'
he expressed his concerns about translations. He sent a
similar
letter to other people as well. If I read it right, his
main
concern was the wordings in 'Level 5' and the theoretical
addendum.
conclusion
----------
In essence, I'm all for it to create a consensus with Ann Stephens
(if she responds in a timely manner).
So, for all translators and would-be-translators, let's have a
moratorium
(at least on the distribution of translated materials itself).
As a compromise, I could envision that TROM Level 5 and Theory
Addendum
remain untranslated, and the rest be translated whereby the original
English version would have to be included in the entire package.
As far as the 'distributor' game is going, it would be good to ask
Ann Stephens if the 'profit' of a 100 or 200 copies justifies
holding
to it, or if it should be made available on the Internet.
The authenticity of TROM could be asserted by attaching a PGP
signature
to it, as, I believe Homer, suggested some months ago.
Putting stops on the distribution of TROM reveals intentions/goals
contrary
to Dennis' own goals of 'self-help' processing for 'everybody'.
Or, in other words, suppressiveness.
'nuff zed !
Joachim
****************************************************************
** Joachim H. Steingrubner, PhD TransMillennium,
Inc. **
** E-mail: [email protected] CompuServe:
71762,1757 **
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=============================================================================
Greetings,
/ÄÄÄ\
| Ant
|
Antony A Phillips
\ÄÄÄ/
Internet address:
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
--- GoldED 2.42.G0214+ -
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Publisher, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l, IVy lists
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