************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************
Sent Saturday 6th of February, 2016 by [email protected] (Antony Phillips)Subject:
Note that this is a resend of a message sent some years ago, and some data (like addresses) is liable to be inaccurate.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
TROM B29
Date:
Fri, 03 Jul 1998 22:35:16 +0200
From:
Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
--
Ant Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TROM-L Ä
Msg : 274 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s
From : JHS <[email protected]> Tue 27 Feb 96
01:17
To : [email protected] Tue 27 Feb 96
07:14
Subj : Slang, Lingo, Abbrevs.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
. (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for [email protected]); Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:45:40 +0100
r <[email protected]>; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:31:17 +0100
I would like to remind you that the majority of subscribers to
this list are not familiar with the lingo of the wide field
of 'Clearing Technology' (of whatever color and shade).
Please define your terms as much as possible.
Regarding the 'End Phenomenon' (EP) of TROM Level 3:
The term 'EP' has been used (by Hubbard and others) to specify
the result of a 'process', 'session', OR 'action'.
A process is one or more 'commands' (such as 'picture a lion in front of
you').
A 'session' is the physical encounter of a facilitator with a client.
An 'action' is a sequence of processes that can stretch over several
sessions.
As a rule of thumb: When the 'EP' (for example: 'client is laughing his head
off) can be observed, the process, session, or action should be terminated.
In this light, I'm very careful with statements like 'EP is reached if
there is no read anymore (on a meter)' or 'EP is when no change is produced
anymore'. Those are not 'positive' phenomena but are characterized by
the _absence_ of something (reads/change).
Therefore, not finding objects or scenes to time-break anymore does not mean
TROM Level 3 is 'done'. It just means that nothing is currently in sight.
I see time-breaking as a tool that can be used for considerations about
things that a person perceives 'in' time. For all considerations 'through'
time, and 'in between-times' to use NLP terminology, time-breaking is
not applicable and TROM Level 4 could be used. If 'in-time-items' pop up
one can always go back to Level 3. I don't think it is necessary to make a
distinct cut between Level 3 and 4.
Regarding the 'wording' of goals, pls see my last post. The wording doesn't
matter, the goal has to be 'felt' correctly and it can be expected that
the subjective perception of one's own goals is different for every
'processor' of TROM.
Did somebody every attempt a formulation of TROM Levels using 'neutral',
everyday language (not slang) ?
Joachim
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950801
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TROM-L Ä
Msg : 275 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s
From : Dimitri Ivakhnenko <[email protected]> Mon 04 Mar 96
08:42
To : [email protected] Mon 04 Mar 96
20:21
Subj : Better understanding TROM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
ESMTP id LAA23635 for <[email protected]>; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:50:52 +0100
Hello all, isn't it a nice day?
Having translated TROM in Russian and thus having thoroughly studied it,
I thought that I understand TROM really well. However recently, studying
the materialization sequence proposed by Flemming Funch, I seem to have
gained better understanding of TROM.
I am sure you can tell at once when two objects are intermingled. But
what about less material stuff, like postulates, emotions, concepts?
Distinguishing and comparing them is not so easy. However you can easily
distinguish them by bringing them down to earth. This I understand as
one of the central ideas of TROM.
That is, you get something more abstract: "object", "scene", "being
forced to know", "to know", get it to the manifestation level and
compare it with your current manifestation.
Dennis promised that he'll "be the first to applaud any being who can
explain all the facts with a simpler theory from which even more
workable practical exercises can be derived".
Well, to the simpler theory. The postulate failure cycle chart is really
impressive and logical, but maybe nothing more than that. Let's see what
is really done in practice. One "timebreaks": objects, then scenes, then
"overwhelms", and then "postulates". I can see more natural sequence up
the materialization sequence:
Manifestation, Efforts, Emotions, Thoughts, Intentions
Objects, actions, expectations, postulates, basic intentions.
Perceive, do, feel, decide, intend.
So it seems that Stephens proposes to do some work with manifestations,
bit of work with efforts, and then bit of work with postulates. I don't
see anything sacred about the goal "To Know", and in the goal packages
construction. I understand goal packages as just a tool to better cope
with primary thoughts and cover them in a more or less systematical and
balanced way.
Stuff can be compared: in different places, in different moments, in
different authorship, in different realities (e.g. current an imagined),
etc.
As to the "repair of importances", it would be probably best to learn to
keep in existence and manage the type of stuff which you get
"timebroken" and thus lost from current reality.
Be aware that I didn't try most of that but it seems to make sense.
Now more close to the practice. I see little enjoyment in grinding over
and over again the same commands. I prefer one thought, but primary, to
thousand of secondary. I like creating complete learning experiences
with places, time, characters, plot, efforts, emotions, decisions,
intentions, in which I can sucessfully trick my self to change,
experiencing the created tale from multiple viewpoints, and then
transferring the created change to the current reality. It is much more
enjoyable and a lot of other issues also get handled by the way. This
wonderful tech is now available in a GSU Bulletin # 31415 "Towards More
Unified Theory Of Processing".
That's all folks,
Have a nice day,
Dimitri
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950801
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TROM-L Ä
Msg : 277 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s
From : Dimitri Ivakhnenko <[email protected]> Fri 08 Mar 96
00:44
To : [email protected] Fri 08 Mar 96
20:10
Subj : Re: Better understanding TROM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
ESMTP id NAA09232 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:20:50 +0100
>>Now more close to the practice. I see little enjoyment in grinding over
>>and over again the same commands. I prefer one thought, but primary, to
>>thousand of secondary. I like creating complete learning experiences
>>with places, time, characters, plot, efforts, emotions, decisions,
>>intentions, in which I can sucessfully trick my self to change,
>>experiencing the created tale from multiple viewpoints, and then
>>transferring the created change to the current reality.
>This is a very good idea, develop much more abilities and consciousness.
>
>It is much more
>>enjoyable and a lot of other issues also get handled by the way. This
>>wonderful tech is now available in a GSU Bulletin # 31415 "Towards More
>>Unified Theory Of Processing".
>
>I like to have this Bulletin, whe I can find or do FTP?
Technology of Personal Transformation
(A gift to K. on the 8th of March)
(Translated from Russian)
Viewing natural and artificial processes of personal change in
psychotherapy, personal development, psychological manipulation,
everyday life, it is interesting to notice there something common, on
the basis of which more effective techniques can then be constructed.
Let's look at the simple example. Late in evening on the 8th of March
Ms. K was returning home. Suddenly a hooligan approached her and began
to bother her. In some wonderful way she found some inner resources and
gave him a remarkable knock-out with her right hand, and thanks to this
happily reached her home. Having discovered her undisclosed abilities,
she gained more confidence. Splendid personal changes happened in ten
minutes.
Let's try to describe in more detail what happened. When the hooligan
bagan to bother K., it probably entered in a conflict with her ideas
about desired physical circumstances. This conflict naturally caused a
wish to do something in this situation, to bring it nearer to desired.
It seems K. was not able to change the situation immediately, and
another conflict arised - between the wish to handle situation and
inability to do this in the framework of current abilities. This
conflict naturally caused the strong emotional response of K., aimed to
bring abilities nearer to desired. However even this strong emotional
response did not give K. the possibility to handle the situation, the
conflict arised between the possibilities of emotional regulation of
abilities and desired change of abilities. The matter affected general
map of K.'s reality, which ceased to be useful in the realization of
K.'s general basic intentions. Thanks to some flexibility of K. in
regards to the maps she was able to modify her map of reality
correspondingly to the current circumstances, to have the possibility to
realize her general basic intentions. On the basis of modified map of
reality K. gained new strong emotions. With this emotions she made new
actions in the form of powerful blow with her right hand. The result of
survival that she gained strengthened this personal transformation. K.
liked the change from the viewpoint of her basic intentions in life, she
decide to use her previously hidden abilities in the future. Hooligan
got a good lesson and will do in the future something more beneficial to
his well-being and development.
However Ms. K. was very lucky to remain healthy after such shock,
lucky that hooligan learned a lesson, and I don't recommend anybody to
really walk late in evening by dark streets with the purpose of personal
development. Maybe in imagination.
Let's better view the hierarchy of activity regulation that we got:
General basic intentions (values, wants)
regulate
Primary thoughts (postulates, reality maps, fixed ideas, formulated
intenions, fixed decisions, goals)
regulate
Emotions (urges, expectations, feelings, norms of action)
regulate
Efforts (actions, ways, means, functions, roles)
regulate
Manifestations (desired perceived results, requirements)
And now we can move to the practical application of this model,
proposed first in 'Transformational Paths' of Fleeming Funch and in
some works on psychology. Let's view a session. We arrived at such
sequence of work:
- study the current state of activity regulation levels and the
personal ability to change
- select approximately which level is most appropriate to change and
how to change it best
If personal flexibility allows the change of primary thoughts:
- have her create or perceive the manifestation
- create and emphasize the conflict between desired and perceived
manifestations
- have her act appropriately
- create and emphasize the conflict between desired and done actions
in current framework
- encourage appropriate emotions
- create and emphasize the conflict between desired and experienced
emotions
- encourage to view the used map of reality
- create and emphasize the conflict between desired and used map of
reality
- find out general basic intentions
- have the client modify her map of reality in alignment with the
general basic intentions
- have her change her emotions correspondingly
- have her change her actions correspondingly
- have her get the desired result
- generalize the result and strenthen the changes
- align the generalized result with the general framework of the person
- have the client to use the change in the future
How to do it in practice? Actually vast amount of techniques realize
this sequence. You can see some of them in Flemming Funch manuals. I
like to use this sequence as a fairy tale. I construct the scenario of
how some people have accomplished something thanks to some personal
changes. I use personal imagined reality to experience this scenario
from multiple viewpoints. Then I generalize the changes and strengthen
them in the future. However I recommend very strongly to make a correct
assessment of personal flexibility in regards of which level is best to
change, and to work with qualified partner if possible.
By the way, why many techniques use many viewpoints? They can be seen as
the component parts of the experience and experiencing from only one
viewpoint is wittingly incomplete, dividing the relity in "me" and
"not-me".
In experiencing the known rule is important that the tale ought to have
a happy end. What does it mean in practice? We can pick out of numerous
techniques such principles of growth experience:
- establish and develop communication between viewpoints
- have viewpoints cooperate and integrate
- discover that general basic intentions are positive and allow the
junior levels to change
- comprehend the experience as useful learning
- elicit the lessons to learn
- develop abilities
- get new information
- create something new
- complete incomleted
- enjoy the experience
- make amendments to the planned personal changes in accordance with
personal abilities to change
- generalize the changes and ground them in reality
- futurepace the results, transfer of changes to the future
- experience from multiple viewpoints, especially causative
- know all levels of activity regulation
Usage of these principles is vital in personal change since they ensure
that changes correspond to the the general basic intentions and
personality structure.
Some techniques are quite effective using only some of these principles
and only part of the technological sequence of change. Utilization of
all principles allows to get any desired changes. Besides, we can add to
this model any other useful principles.
Congratulations with the 8th of March!
Dimitri Ivakhnenko
P.S. The aim of this message is rather educational. I don't yet know how
safe this tech is when used solo. It seems to me that it is safer than
TROM and some other techniques. Probably the most safe and effective way
is to get the scenario from the unconscious and work with qualified
partner (see Flemming's manuals). Our whole life is such a fairy tale.
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950801
--
Ant Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l, IVy lists
_______________________________________________ TROM mailing list [email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
