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Hi Robin,

I appreciated reading your experience.

I appreciated your honesty, your as-ising things.

I can related to much of what you said and experienced.

I am very much interested in doing some co auditing with TROM.

email me at  david.pelly at gmail.com


David

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:19 AM, The Resolution of Mind list <
[email protected]> wrote:

> *************
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> Hi Robin, Colleen and anyone else reading,
>
> This is an interesting discussion on 'outcreate'.  The word seems to have
> been invented by LRH, and the earliest mention I can find is in PAB 85, THE
> PARTS OF MAN (later published in the Fundamentals of Thought)
>
> "If a thetan can suffer from anything, it is being out-created (created
> against too
> thoroughly). The manifestations of being out-created would be the
> destruction of his
> own creations and the overpowering presence of other creations. Thus a
> thetan can be
> brought to believe that he is trapped if he is out-created."
>
> This aligns with LRH's ideas about games as contests in overwhelming, and
> as creation versus counter creation.  He goes on to say "There is no effort
> in Scientology to out-create each and every thetan that comes along."
>
> I'd agree that attempting to handle others by outcreating them is a games
> condition, and is likely to end in tears.
>
> David
>
>
> On 14/03/2016 6:34 pm, The Resolution of Mind  list wrote:
>
>> *************
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>> ************
>> Colleen,
>>
>> I'm not sure if your question is directed at me, but will try
>> to answer it anyway.
>>
>> First of all, it is not important _what I mean_ by "outcreate".
>> I'm not the inventor of the term. I've just tried to interpret
>> it by applying some agreed upon rules of translation.
>>
>> Second, Geoffrey C. Filbert created that term and I am
>> not very lucky about that. In the whole text of his "Excalibur
>> Revisited" book "OUTCREATE" appears exactly one time and he
>> did use bold letters at that occasion. I guess thus emphasizing
>> the word was obviously misleading for some readers. One should see
>> that in context of what Geoffrey wrote a few pages above. Then it
>> becomes quite clear that "outcreate" is not meant in a destructive
>> way.
>>
>> Again, if we take e.g. "outperform" it means to perform better than
>> something/someone else (the thing or someone that is "outperformed"
>> then). So the "outperformer", in order to be one, does of course not
>> destroy the "performer". He just makes or does something that performs
>> better. (A thing of natural progress, by the way.)
>>
>> People who's native language is different from English often translate
>> the syllable "out" in a complete different direction. It has a negative
>> meaning like in "to wipe out" or "cancel out" a.s.o.
>> Following along that line of logic the meaning of "outcreate" would
>> be easily misinterpreted as "to destruct a creation" or something
>> like that.
>>
>> Well, why did I state that I'm not very lucky with Filbert's neologism?
>> Simply because it was unnecessary. We already have enough very good
>> definitions for all kinds of creation and its different states at
>> hand. E.g.:
>>
>> [IS-NESS, 1. is-ness is an apparency of existence brought about by the
>>  continuous
>> alteration of an as-isness. This is called, when agreed upon, reality.
>> (PXL, p.
>> 154) 2 . something that is persisting on a continuum. That is our
>> basic  definition
>> of is-ness. (PXL, p. 91) 3 . i s - n e s s is an apparency, it is not
>> an  actuality.
>> (PXL, p. 175)
>>
>> NOT-IS-NESS, 1. trying to put out of existence by postulate or force
>> something
>> which one knows, priorly, exists. One is trying to talk against his own
>> agreements and postulates with his new postulates, or is trying to spray
>> down
>> something with the force of other is-nesses in order to cause a
>> cessation  of the isness he objects to. (PXL, p. 64) 2 . not-is-ness
>> is the effort to  handle is-ness
>> by reducing its condition through the use of force. It is an apparency
>> and  cannot
>> entirely vanquish an is-ness. (PXL, p. 154) 3 . there are two
>> different  conditions
>> of not-is-ness: one is just vanishment. The other one is an is-ness which
>> somebody is trying to postulate out of existence by simply saying,
>> “It  isn’t.” A
>> not-is-ness, in our terminology, would be this second specialized case
>> of  an
>> individual trying to vanish something without taking responsibility for
>> having
>> created it. (PXL, p. 100) 4 . not-is-ness is manifested as and is in
>> itself the
>> mechanism we know as unreality. (PXL, p. 55)
>>
>> ALTER-IS, 1 . a composite word meaning the action of altering or
>> changing  the
>> reality of something. Is-ness means the way it is. When someone sees it
>> differently he is doing an alter-is; in other words, is altering the way
>> it is.
>> This is taken from the Axioms. (LRH Def. Notes) 2 . to introduce a
>> change  and
>> therefore time and persistence in an as-is-ness to obtain persistency. An
>> introduction of an alter-is is therefore the addition of a lie to the
>> real  which
>> causes it to persist and not to blow or as-is. (HCOB 11 May 65)
>>
>> AS-IS-NESS, 1. the condition of immediate creation without
>> persistence,  and is the
>> condition of existence which exists at the moment of creation and the
>> moment of
>> destruction and is different from other considerations in that it does
>> not  contain
>> survival. (PXL, p. 154) 2. as-is-ness would be the condition created
>> again  in
>> the same time, in the same space, with the same energy and the same
>> mass,  the
>> same motion and the same time continuum. (PXL, p. 68) 3 . something that
>> is
>> just postulated or just being duplicated—no alteration taking place.
>>  As-is-ness
>> contains no life continuum, no time continuum. (PXL, p. 91)]
>>
>> To make that clear allow me to give an example for what Geoffrey - in my
>> opinion - intended to express:
>>
>> Imagine an inventor who creates an invention. Some time after he had
>> applied
>> for patent someone else has an even better idea which outperforms the
>> first
>> inventor's idea and thus "outcreates" his invention in that it makes the
>> first patent obsolete. In doing so the second inventor did not commit an
>> overt or overwhelm. He might not even have known of the other's invention.
>> He did not go and drop a bomb at the others factory - which would have
>> been
>> an overt and a destructive kind of "alter-is".
>>
>> E.g. Thomas A. Edison invented the DC (direct current) electrical
>> generator.
>> He and his financial backers made every effort to promote DC current to
>> become
>> the standard system for power grids and electrical power distribution.
>> Well, the even greater genius Nicola Tesla invented AC (alternating
>> current)
>> as a means for electrical energy distribution. Since Tesla's idea was
>> superior
>> to that of Edison (DC can not use transformers to generate high voltages.
>> AC can do that. It's an issue of efficiency in energy transport - an
>> issue  I'm
>> not going into in detail here) Tesla's idea clearly outperforms Edison's.
>> Thus it made DC current - for that particular purpose - obsolete or, as
>> Filbert would have said it: "Tesla OUTCREATED Edison's concept of electric
>> power distribution."
>>
>> Finally, the example you gave
>> <quote>
>> For example one could imagine out-creating the existing food
>> economy/industry with a system of permaculture and plentiful food
>> forests -
>> <end quote>
>> is one I've seen work very well.
>>
>> What you say can be done on a small scale and it is perfectly scalable.
>>
>> I know that it works, because I already saw before 2008 that things come
>> to a head economically and acted accordingly. I grow my own food since,
>> be mostly self-sufficient and have learned a lot of new things by the way.
>>
>> In that sense I'm honestly grateful to the Elite, the political leaders,
>> the proponents of the banking industry, ... for that they created an
>> environment for me that had allowed me to wake up and act due to a highly
>> increased necessity level in respect of survival. I would not have
>> been motivated enough without that higher necessity level. So I've
>> developed further as a being and I'm lucky because I see that I do not
>> need to destroy or fight their system any more. Instead I use the assets
>> I have at hand (e.g. creativity) to manage to make things better for
>> myself
>> and those around me.
>>
>>
>> Have a nice day
>>
>> Robin
>>
>> P.S.: LRH around 1950-52 wrote much about "decreasing the MEST-Universe's
>>       power while increasing ones own universe". See Scientology 8008.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2016 02:52:50 +0100, <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Send TROM mailing list submissions to
>>>         [email protected]
>>>
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>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>>
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>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. RE Out-Create (The Resolution of Mind list)
>>>    2. Suffering on Level 2 for 100 hours (The Resolution of Mind list)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 12:55:08 -0400
>>> From: The Resolution of Mind  list <[email protected]>
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: [TROM1] RE Out-Create
>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Is this what you mean by "Out-Create"?
>>>
>>> "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change
>>> something build a new model (creation) that makes the existing model
>>> obsolete" Bucky Fuller is attributed with saying that.
>>>
>>> For example one could imagine out-creating the existing food
>>> economy/industry with a system of permaculture and plentiful food
>>> forests -
>>> back to an earthly paradise without profit or exploitation conditions....
>>> more simple and uncomplicated.
>>> I would want to get into the viewpoint of those who oppose, at least....
>>> all limiting non-life postulates were once less limiting life-oriented
>>> postulates (I could be wrong on that). I see it would take great patience
>>> and compassion.
>>>
>>> colleen
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 08:53:52 +0700
>>> From: The Resolution of Mind  list <[email protected]>
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: [TROM1] Suffering on Level 2 for 100 hours
>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Dear TROMmers,
>>>
>>> Short version:
>>> This email will contain my experience with running TROM for approximately
>>> 100 hours on level 2.
>>> I did not have any big gains, no ability returned, but had an awful lot
>>> of
>>> yawning an suffering.
>>> The only ability is that I now remember a bunch of previous lives (mostly
>>> thanks to scientology auditing)
>>>
>>> Background and Short History:
>>> I was in the church for a about two years, 20 years ago , but it was just
>>> dianetics auditing.
>>> Being an experimenter type, I was quickly declared and thrown out as a
>>> suppressive person.
>>> 11 years ago I found TROM, the theory was fascinating. It is simple and
>>> intuitive, so I
>>> started on level 2. Soon I realized I need an e-meter to really be able
>>> to
>>> tell if there is a change,
>>> so I bought one, and did some sessions, had a big win, but then it was
>>> not
>>> working, so I give up after maybe 10-20 hours.
>>> 2 years ago I visited an ex scientology auditor, and started on the
>>> bridge,
>>> I did the TR's and objectives,
>>> ARC straightwire, Grade 0 and Grade 1 with him (could not continue, moved
>>> to another city) and also did 50 hours of
>>> TROM with him on level 2. After that I have decided I will do 50 hours of
>>> TROM this year.
>>> So I will tell you my different experiences with TROM in the following
>>> sections.
>>>
>>> First Experiments
>>> After reading the book I rushed to practice. Of course being inside
>>> scientology I understood level 2 as a
>>> method to run charged or heavy or uncomfortable events. Well I did not
>>> feel
>>> much change. Sometimes
>>> I felt nervous, but could not decide weather there was change while
>>> running
>>> the event or not.
>>> After I gave up for a little bit -because I could not assess change- I
>>> realized I need an e-meter,
>>> because that will measure change. So I bought one, and restarted
>>> enthusiastically, found a few charged events
>>> had a few wins, it was great. But soon I run out of events. The meter did
>>> not move any more.
>>> It was not a floating needle as Dennis described, it was just sluggish
>>> mostly, but nothing
>>> to run anymore ... so as I mentioned before, it did not work as
>>> advertised.
>>> I gave up for the
>>> next 10 years.
>>>
>>> Scientology auditing
>>> I had some free time in my life, so I had the idea, to go try scientology
>>> auditing in the freezone.
>>> I did the TR's and objectives, ARC straightwire, Grade 0 and Grade 1.
>>> Well
>>> maybe I am in terrible
>>> case maybe not. According to my auditor I am considered an average case,
>>> with not much trauma
>>> in my life. So level 2 should have worked for me according to Dennis, but
>>> it did not!
>>> And I tell you while it was most probably later started to work (my idea
>>> and Dennis also speaks about this)
>>> Every person wanting to go up the scientology bridge have to do TR's and
>>> objectives.
>>> The objectives part contains processes called CCH and there are 10 of
>>> them.
>>> One of them
>>> called the Book and Bottle. Well if you do not know what it is, I give
>>> you
>>> an idea here,
>>> at least this is how my auditor run it on me. You walk to a bottle on one
>>> side of the room
>>> tell it's weight, color, then you are requested to walk to a book on the
>>> other side of the
>>> room and tell it's color and weight. I started around 8 a.m. and I had to
>>> do it until
>>> around 18 o'clock. You just cannot imagine how hard is to survive that
>>> for
>>> 10 hours.
>>> And the rest of the CCH is not easier by any means. I believe the CCH
>>> processes broke my case,
>>> because very soon after them I tried TROM again, as you can see in the
>>> next
>>> section, but
>>> this time it worked, well if you call the worst repeated experience of
>>> your
>>> life working :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> TROM with an auditor
>>> I decided to do TROM with an auditor because I was unable to do it alone,
>>> and after 10 years of struggling, I came
>>> to the conclusion that I need help with this, whatever Dennis Stephens
>>> says. Also I did not have that much
>>> experience with auditing in general, the rigorous process, and the
>>> willpower it needed.
>>> We always did 1 hour sessions. After 1 hour I was so tired, that I had to
>>> go home to sleep.
>>> So that 50 hours of auditing took a long time to complete (2 months
>>> almost
>>> every day)
>>> (of course we did try longer sessions like 90 minutes, but the few
>>> times  we
>>> did, made me so tired, that I was totally exhausted)
>>> I took events from my current life, pick an item from them (like a
>>> chair, a
>>> friend) and compared them with objects in present time.
>>> The effect? From a 60 minutes session, I was yawning at least 50 minutes.
>>> By that I mean that
>>> my mouth was open for 50 minutes and closed for 10 minutes. So one yawn
>>> usually takes a minute.
>>> Five minutes after starting, my nose started to run, so one hour usually
>>> resulted in 5 wet handkerchiefs.
>>> I did not run any important or charged event from my life. Just the
>>> normal,
>>> not charged ones.
>>> After about 45 hours the yawning started to decrease on the events. Then
>>> one day my auditor asked me if I felt
>>> anything different, (I did not), because the needle characteristic on the
>>> e-meter changed, he said.
>>> Well next day I found out, what he meant. The yawning run out, and I go
>>> so
>>> angry I could trash the place, and
>>> beat up my auditor. Then quickly I reached boredom. We did this a few
>>> times, It all happened within one hour:
>>> 10-15 minutes yawning, a little anger, boredom, and then nothing, just
>>> did
>>> TROM until the 1 hour finished.
>>> So I decided that maybe from here, I can do it alone.
>>>
>>> TROM alone
>>> I started to do level 2 on charged events, alone, with my e-meter, 1 hour
>>> sessions.
>>> The yawning returned to span 90% of the time again.
>>> But after about 15 hours I run out of events to process. Whatever I
>>> picked
>>> up, just was boring, and did not
>>> have any effect on the e-meter. Did I reach the end of level 2? I was
>>> hoping, but I still could not place, the then
>>> next to the now. I mean sometimes yes, but it took too much effort, and
>>> only could do it after I run out the charge,
>>> and even then it was not perfect. So I definitely did not finish level 2,
>>> but could not find anything that would produce
>>> change (noticeable by myself on myself, or on the e-meter). WTF should
>>> I  do
>>> now? So I went to amazon, because
>>> by this time, the 6 TROM books were available, and I bought them all, and
>>> read them. Nothing!
>>> What the hell should Ii run in the session then?
>>>
>>>
>>> Dream TROM
>>> In desperation, I came up with the idea to run my dreams on level 2. The
>>> idea was so stupid, that I went to my auditor
>>> to ask his advice, and to my astonishment, he said, that I should go
>>> ahead
>>> and do it, because they contain many
>>> unconscious events, probably even events from past lives.
>>> So I did it. Every morning I wrote down my dreams (usually only one I can
>>> remember) and during the day I run it on
>>> level 2. Boy was I in trouble! For the next 20 hours I had to reduce my
>>> session time to 30 minutes.
>>> It was awful, my jaw hurt from the yawning, an I was so tired, that many
>>> times after 30 minutes of auditing I just
>>> lay down in my bed, and fall asleep immediately. I did not matter, if I
>>> just woke up from a whole night of sleep,
>>> after I did a session, I had to go back to sleep again. It took almost 2
>>> months to do that 20 hours of auditing,
>>> which is ridiculous, and it hurt me a lot. And how it worked is even
>>> worse.
>>> I had a dream, I picked a chair
>>> from it and run it for 30 minutes, next day I picked the table that was
>>> next to the chair in the same dream, that also
>>> give me 30 minutes yawning. Finishing level 2 seemed impossible.
>>> Nothing last forever, and one day my dream run out (no yawning, no
>>> e-meter
>>> needle movement) in 15 minutes,
>>> and whatever other objects or persons I took from the same dream, the
>>> yawning did not return.
>>> Next day the same happened. WTF should I do now? Luckily the same day I
>>> was
>>> dreaming a very strange dream.
>>> I was in the second word war running from the Germans, captured, and
>>> everything looked like in those old war movies.
>>> I run it with TROM, it run out, and then -thinking about past lives- I
>>> asked myself did I have an earlier similar event?
>>> So I had a vague memory of being beaten, I run it, and it got cleaner, I
>>> was beaten in ancient Egypt. I run this
>>> incident for 2x30 minutes until no change (no yawning, and no emeter
>>> movement)
>>>
>>> Past life TROM
>>> I travelled to my auditor, and begged him to help me find past lives, and
>>> even though I just got until grade 1, I managed
>>> to push him to run some new era dianetics on me. He told me, he will
>>> try  to
>>> run it, it will either work, and then we
>>> continue or not run at all, then he can not help me but return to grade
>>> 1.
>>> We started out with my Egyptian incident,
>>> and run with scientology auditing, about 5 past life incidents come up in
>>> about 6 hours of auditing. If you know how New Era Dianetics
>>> works, you know, that it will not erase incidents, just the oldest one.
>>> So
>>> you see some incident, and the moment you
>>> can remember an earlier incident, you are requested to move to the
>>> earlier
>>> one, leaving the original unhandled (as I understand it)
>>> So I went back home, and took all those unfinished incidents, and run
>>> TROM
>>> on them. One incident usually run for 60-90 minutes!
>>> By this time I could increase my session time back to 60 minutes. So
>>> when I
>>> finished all the incidents I found with my auditor
>>> I was back to square one: I had nothing to audit. And I can tell you this
>>> with certainty: It is not possible to recall past lives
>>> with TROM, not at the beginning at least. The reason it worked with the
>>> scientology auditor was that I closed my eyes the
>>> whole time, so I tried the same during TROM sessions: I did not compare
>>> anything, I did not open my eyes, I just went
>>> through the event a few times (with a lot of yawning of course) and after
>>> maybe 15-30 minutes I could open my eyes,
>>> and start to do TROM on those objects/persons (with more yawning) which
>>> by
>>> that time I could clearly recall.
>>> I just cannot access past lives with my eyes open, most of the time I
>>> just
>>> have a feeling, or very faint part of a picture
>>> and when I go over and over again, more details come up, maybe later ....
>>>
>>>
>>> My Conclusions
>>> - TROM is not a mature technology. It was invented by one man, and as I
>>> understand it very few people provided feedback.
>>>   Therefore it worked for one man, who had very little case to begin
>>> with,
>>> so it is rather untested, and most certainly will not work for everybody.
>>> - It is impossible to understand TROM without really understanding
>>> scientology. Dennis does not stress this, but
>>>   the guy lived his entire life inside or around scientology. It was like
>>> breathing to him, he did the original Saint Hill Special
>>>   Briefing Course, but for an outsider?
>>> - No timeframe, no statistics. This is the worst in my view. My
>>> scientology
>>> auditor tells me, that making a clear takes
>>>   usually 450 hours of auditing. Nowhere in TROM did I see the number of
>>> hours. When I started out, I was thinking, that
>>>   level 2 will take 10-20 hours to complete. Now I have about 50 hours of
>>> dianetics, 200 hours of scientology auditing
>>>   and 100 hours of TROM and hey I just found a few past lives, of which I
>>> am sure there are thousands. THOUSANDS.
>>>   How much time do you think it will take to run out with TROM like 1000
>>> lifetimes, when running one life took me
>>>   350 hours? Maybe much less. I am just wenting my anger...
>>> - My auditor told me that an OT VIII needs around 2500 hours of auditing
>>> from zero to OT VIII.
>>>   OT VII alone takes 1500 hours, so the rest of the bridge takes about
>>> 1000
>>> hours.
>>>   Based on that number, now I see that just to do 1000 hours requires
>>> extreme dedication. If I can do 1 hour every day,
>>>   which is of course impossible, so lets just go with 300 hours a year.
>>> Let's say I need 600 more hours of level 2, and maybe
>>>   600 level 3. That would be 4 YEARS of very hard, very dedicated work.
>>> Am
>>> I up for that? Well I am not sure.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents, which I would add to TROM based on my experience
>>> So OT VIII takes 2500 hours, deduct 1500 for OT VII, because Dennis does
>>> not believes in Body Thetans/Entities which OT VII
>>> is all about, that would leave us 1000 hours of auditing. Dennis says by
>>> completing level 3 you are above OT VIII.
>>> You did not just think that TROM is so much more effective than
>>> scientology
>>> auditing, and therefore needs less time?
>>> According to my experience, they are on pair, judging by the effects
>>> (e.g.
>>> yawning) they have on me. So to be above OT VIII
>>> with a permanent floating needle, well let's just say that will take 500
>>> extra hours of auditing. So 1000 + 500 = 1500 hours.
>>> Well that's just a total guesswork, but what matters to me, is that it
>>> gives me rough estimates of the magnitudes involved:
>>> - You did 10 hours on level 2,3 and declared yourself finished, well
>>> haha,
>>> I think this is self delusion.
>>> - You did 100 hours on level 2,3 and declared yourself finished, go visit
>>> an auditor, and check your permanent floating needle
>>>   I can almost guarantee you, you will even fail the clear certainty
>>> test.
>>> 100 hours is nothing. Even a clear takes 450 hours.
>>> - You did several hundreds of hours on level 2,3 Please, tell me about
>>> your
>>> experience.
>>> - How many past lives did you handle with level 2,3? You did not
>>> seriously
>>> believe that by running this life, you erased
>>>   your bank? This life is very pleasant and comfortable for most people
>>> today. But you lived 1000 of lives before.
>>>   Let's say you run x charge of this life, what about the other 1000x?
>>> And
>>> we did not even go into actual gpm's and the like.
>>> - There is only so much charge you can erase in this life, it is not even
>>> 0.1 percent of the charge on your whole time track.
>>>   Did you run that out? Where does Dennis mentions this? Well if you can
>>> read between the lines, or read scientology stuff...
>>> It takes in my estimates at least 1500 hours to finish level 2 and 3,
>>> to  be
>>> above OT VIII, with a permanent floating needle.
>>> So in my opinion, if you want to do TROM:
>>> -Go to an auditor and at least finish TR's and objectives, and ARC
>>> staightwire. (and yes I could easily run RI and level 2 before I did)
>>> -Buy an e-meter, without that you are blind (yawning was a good
>>> indication
>>> in the last 100 hours, but it just gives me confidence)
>>> -Prepare for years of suffering every day
>>> -Stack up on willpower. Level 2 is horrible. Could you hurt yourself for
>>> years, every single day?
>>> -I am not even sure you can do this alone, I mean how an ordinary man
>>> have
>>> such kind of willpower?
>>>  That's the whole reason scientology works with the auditor preclear
>>> model.
>>> Because the auditor's and yours combined
>>>  analytical power is greater than your reactive mind's power.
>>> -Stack up on higher level scientology books (1950-1965), I do not think
>>> the
>>> TROM books are enough, to understand all this.
>>>  I mean Dennis just mentions past lifes in passing, but if you read early
>>> scientology stuff, you will see that
>>>  most charge is not on the current life
>>>
>>>
>>> Whining
>>> Currently my total auditing time is 350 hours, so maybe from tomorrow I
>>> will run out 1 whole past life every day, and in 3
>>> years I will finish. Maybe tomorrow, I will blow all my charges, and will
>>> get that floating needle. I will tell you about it then.
>>> You see the problem is that when I set a goal, an I give it up, then I
>>> have
>>> lost a game with my reactive mind, therefore getting
>>> down in the downward spiral. And I decided to reach level 3 almost 11
>>> years
>>> ago, and I am nowhere near,
>>> and most probably I will give up, because Dennis Stephens could not
>>> write a
>>> fucking number (hours) in his books.
>>> Well it was easy for him, he had an easy case to run, but me mere mortal?
>>> What about me?
>>> If I open the TROM book I could realistically make a decision to start,
>>> if
>>> he would just wirte 1000 hours for level 2.
>>> Because in that case I would not have set my goal for sure, knowing
>>> that  I
>>> do not have the kind of will necessary for this.
>>>
>>> Summary
>>> In my opinion TROM is for people like Dennis: OT's from the 1950's and
>>> 1960's or OT VIII's of today.
>>> They have the background knowledge necessary, a reactive mind cleared and
>>> blasted to pieces by hundreds of hours of auditing
>>> and the increased determination coming with that kind of case. For
>>> anybody
>>> else it is like a minefield,
>>> of which 95% percent of the people doesn't even realize it is a
>>> minefield,
>>> because they give up sooner than realizing it
>>> or declare themselves finished before even stepping on it.
>>> Yes everybody can do it - I have to agree - but how many people have that
>>> kind of willpower out of 100?
>>>
>>> The Future
>>> Life takes us away from our goals, have to manage a thousand things. Have
>>> to work, care with the family, sports, hobbies, etc.
>>> I am not the kind of guy, who reads about TROM, runs it for an hour and
>>> then post it on facebook or an email list,
>>> and then looks for something else. I like to do things thoroughly.
>>> Will I give up? Most probably I will at some point. Why should I
>>> continue?
>>> To yawn for 1000 hours more for 3-4 years?
>>> Maybe I cannot spend 1 hour every day, so maybe it would take 10 years of
>>> yawning.
>>> Yeah, that?s a great gain, yawn every day for 3 years is just such a
>>> great
>>> experience.
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyway I run out of my frustration for this year :-)
>>> Would be very happy to get some feedback from you guys.
>>> It would make me even happier if you would tell me, how much time did you
>>> invest in each level?
>>> and how many of you did actually check if they had the kind of floating
>>> needle Dennis describes?
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind Regards from some idiot who started TROM a very long time ago and
>>> got
>>> nowhere with it.... yet
>>>
>>>
>>> PS:
>>> I wrote this email in October 2015 when my frustration reached it's peek,
>>> and then put it away to think about it.
>>> Now I re-read it, and my opinion did not change much.
>>> Maybe it's my case? Maybe I am so terribly aberrated that it works easily
>>> for everybody except me?
>>> It is of course another possibility, the one I don't believe in right
>>> now.
>>> I just cannot accept the fact that some of you achieved level 2 and 3 in
>>> 20-50 hours.
>>> TROM works of course, as advertised, judging from my 100 hours of
>>> yawning.
>>> I'm just saying that it's is a totally immature and untested technic.
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>>>
>>>
>>> End of TROM Digest, Vol 137, Issue 15
>>> *************************************
>>>
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