*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Sent
Saturday 23rd of April 2060
by
[email protected] (Antony Phillips)
more talk here from early TROM days (1998) concerning the copyright
/ lack of copyright of TROM
Note that this is a
resend of a message sent some years ago, and some data (like
addresses) is
liable to be inaccurate.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - -
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Subject:
TROM:
Replay B40
Date:
Fri,
18 Sep 1998 11:11:30 +0200
From:
Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
Here is another replay, TROMers,
I feel apologetic. A brief look at this and other Replays suggests
they
should be thoroughly edited before sending out. I have not done
this,
and indeed have not looked at most of what I am replaying. So
realize
that it is out of pt, and some of the addresses, and indeed some
other
things, may be out of date.
Happy TROMing, and do not forget: It is allowed for TROMmers to write
to
the list, some idea as to where you are and wins, which might
encourage
others, and also comments and queeries on the material. You can send
a
flow to all on the list, if you feel so inclined.
Have a good weekend.
Ant
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l, IVy
lists
Subject:
Re: [From Rowland rKeeping TROM
free
Date:
Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:32:35
-0700
From:
Mx <[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Rowland wrote:
>I like Judith's notice because it requests keeping a work
complete. Also
>because I immediately imagined a CD with other works on it, like
"10 ways
>to go Free, price free." I could perhaps donate "Soul
Retrieval
>Counselling" to it.
The 'Starting Points CD-ROM' of the New Civilization Network
contains encrypted copies of Filbert's Excalibur and TROM
(and, of course, Flemming's Transformational Processings and
Essays, unencrypted).
However, I forgot the passwords for TROM and Filbert,
hmmm...
We could easily make a new CD...
mx
>
---------------------------------
Max J. Sandor, Ph.D.
[email protected]
[email protected]
http://www.newciv.org/max/
Subject:
[Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [From Rowland
rKeeping TROM free]]
Date:
Sat, 27 Sep 1997 07:43:34
+0200
From:
Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
forward as requested to trom-l
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy) see Home Page:
http://home.sn.no/home/trone/IVy.html
Subject:
Re: [Fwd: Re: [From Rowland
rKeeping TROM free]
Date:
Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:57:02
-0700
From:
Mx <[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
OOPS. it should be 'Starting Point...'
Must be a Freudian Slip, hmmmm....
It's the newciv CD
(
http://www.newciv.org/)
It's encrypted since I didn't know about the
implications back then and wanted to have it
on there just in case...
I meant to send the message to the list, not
just to you. Pls forward...
mx
At 07:38 AM 9/26/97 +0200, you wrote:
>Dear Max,
>
>Wow, that sounds interesting. I did not know about it.
>
>Can you clarify a bit? My questions/confusions:
>
>What does Staring Point mean?
>
>Who has got, who gets it?
>
>Is it promoted, and how?
>
>Why encrypted with password?
>
>Is trom-l with current majordomo mentioned?
>
>Can these questions be answered to TROM-l?
>
>
>Never heard of it, and sounds very exciting.
>
>A continueing thans for donating trom-l.
>
>Hi,
>
>Ant
>--
>
Ant
Antony A Phillips
> [email protected]
>
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
>
Box 78
>
DK - 2800 Lyngby
>Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy) see Home Page:
>
http://home.sn.no/home/trone/IVy.html
>Return-Path: <[email protected]>
>Received: from post-relay2.inet.tele.dk ([195.41.33.168]) by
post8.tele.dk
> (Netscape Mail
Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA26846
> for
<[email protected]> Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:38:37 +0200
>Received: (qmail 34614 invoked from network); 25 Sep 1997 20:29:25
-0000
>Received: from newciv.org ([email protected])
> by post-relay2.inet.tele.dk with SMTP; 25 Sep 1997 20:29:25
-0000
>Received: from Max.JCCC_NT ([149.142.240.123]) by newciv.org
(8.6.9/8.6.9)
with SMTP id MAA11115 for <[email protected]> Thu, 25 Sep 1997
12:39:58 -0700
>Message-Id: <[email protected]>
>X-Sender: [email protected]
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
>Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:32:35 -0700
>To: [email protected]
>From: Mx <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [From Rowland rKeeping TROM free
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Rowland wrote:
>
>>I like Judith's notice because it requests keeping a work
complete. Also
>>because I immediately imagined a CD with other works on it, like
"10 ways
>>to go Free, price free." I could perhaps donate
"Soul Retrieval
>>Counselling" to it.
>
> The 'Starting Points CD-ROM' of the New Civilization
Network
> contains encrypted copies of Filbert's Excalibur and TROM
> (and, of course, Flemming's Transformational Processings
and
> Essays, unencrypted).
>
> However, I forgot the passwords for TROM and Filbert,
hmmm...
>
> We could easily make a new CD...
>
>mx
>
>>
>---------------------------------
> Max J. Sandor, Ph.D.
>
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
>
>
http://www.newciv.org/max/
>
---------------------------------
Max J. Sandor, Ph.D.
[email protected]
[email protected]
http://www.newciv.org/max/
Subject:
Keeping TROM free
Date:
Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:15:38
+1000
From:
Judith Anderson
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
CC:
[email protected]
Dear Rowland, Please understand that as far as Ann Stephens is concerned
I
have the copyright to TROM. Ann gave all the TROM research to me and
wants
nothing more to do with it.
It is I who lives 50Km from Ann. Greg lives 600km.
Cheers Judith
>
>Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:31:26 -0400
>From: Rowland Barkley <[email protected]>
>Subject: Keeping TROM free
>Sender: Rowland Barkley <[email protected]>
>To: "INTERNET:[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-Disposition: inline
>
>Dear TROMmers,
>
>I fully agree with the apparent intent of Antony, Judith, and Homer,
and
>feel the messages show a higher degree of ethics than can be imposed
by
>copyright.
>
>My "L13" pack (which has the Track Blaster) has a copyright
notice and a
>subscription price, which seems to have had 3 beneficial
effects:
>a) more people copied it
>b) Those that feel a need to take up my time with in-depth questions
about
>it have sent me a cheque with the subscription fee, so I felt it
important
>to give them good answers.
>c) Other authors see my copyright notice, and happily give me a copy
of
>their work with it's copyright notice, so we both get to feel good
about
>the exchange.
>
>One ''unauthorized" translation appeared in the Ukraine years
later,
>resulting in a series of messages where someone in the US, who had
never
>met me, booked in 10 hours of sessions with me.
"Unauthorized" copies have
>been a significant factor in how I have been able to travel the
world
>continuously for 4 years without going hungry.
>
>I like Judith's notice because it requests keeping a work
complete. Also
>because I immediately imagined a CD with other works on it, like
"10 ways
>to go Free, price free." I could perhaps donate "Soul
Retrieval
>Counselling" to it.
>
>My suggestion would be for Greg to ask Anne Walker (because they only
live
>50Km apart) for him, Judith, and/or Flemming to be copyright holders
for
>the agreement that TROM be free via Internet, including copyright
notice
>provided coppied in entirety, and the notice to include that anyone
who
>prints for profit includes the notice that it may be coppied
freely. 90%
>Judith's wording. If Anne doesn't find this interesting, then
Greg is the
>copyright holder as he compiled and printed the work.
>
> * * * * * * *
* * * *
>Rowland Anton Barkley the Deep Tranceforming....shaman
>
http://tranceform.org email: [email protected]
> * * * * * *
"Create your dream and step into it"
>
Judith K.
Anderson
^..^
Tel/Fax. 61-7-3844 7576 ~
\\
\\
\\
\\ __________
\ /// // \
1 ________ 1 \
1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1
Subject:
Re: Keeping TROM free
Date:
Tue, 30 Sep 1997 01:03:58 -0400
(EDT)
From:
"Homer W. Smith"
<[email protected]>
To:
Judith Anderson
<[email protected]>
CC:
[email protected],
[email protected]
One should not penalize distribution of Trom, nor make
people wonder or missy about whether they can copy it for free.
One should not disavow copyright ownership of the work as
authorship and authority are important.
This is called freeware. It's free to copy, but the copyright
is
maintained, and others may sell it for a profit but because they do
not
own the copyright, they may not stop others from giving it away for free.
This allows those who need to make a living from it do so, perhaps as
a
value added reseller, while not allowing some to corner the market
for
their own ends at the expense of everyone else.
One might ask for shareware donations for the work if people
find it interesting, and offer premium priced hardcopies for those
with money to add to their libraries.
One should always offer Tech Support on Trom as a premium
consultation
rate: e-mail, phone, body in the shop, whatever gradient and price
you
wish.
Never ever give up the copyright to a work, by keeping the
copyright
on the work, you guarantee that it remains free. By taking it off,
that
opens the door to others claiming it and trying to make it unfree
again.
The truth of who wrote what is of paramount importance and
must
never leave the work.
You say "This is mine, you may copy it for free, as long as
the
copyright remains on it, but never forget who wrote it and who owns
it.
And if you add to it, you must mark your own writings as separate
and
append this same copyright to it if they are to be sold as a
bundle."
In other words you can't copyleft and sell a product for a
profit
unless you copyleft your own work too, that is bundled with the product.
Not all copyleft's contain this provision, but its a good
one.
I *WILL* get the GNU copyleft and post it. Don't do anything
brash with Trom until I do! :)
Homer
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith News, Web, Telnet Art
Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 E-mail, FTP,
Shell Internet Access, Ithaca NY
[email protected] [email protected]
http://www.lightlink.com
On Tue, 30 Sep 1997, Judith Anderson wrote:
> Dear Rowland, Please understand that as far as Ann Stephens is
concerned I
> have the copyright to TROM. Ann gave all the TROM research to me and
wants
> nothing more to do with it.
>
> It is I who lives 50Km from Ann. Greg lives 600km.
>
> Cheers Judith
>
>
>
> >
> >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:31:26 -0400
> >From: Rowland Barkley <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Keeping TROM free
> >Sender: Rowland Barkley <[email protected]>
> >To: "INTERNET:[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
> >Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >Content-Disposition: inline
> >
> >Dear TROMmers,
> >
> >I fully agree with the apparent intent of Antony, Judith, and
Homer, and
> >feel the messages show a higher degree of ethics than can be
imposed by
> >copyright.
> >
> >My "L13" pack (which has the Track Blaster) has a
copyright notice and a
> >subscription price, which seems to have had 3 beneficial
effects:
> >a) more people coppied it
> >b) Those that feel a need to take up my time with in-depth
questions about
> >it have sent me a cheque with the subscription fee, so I felt it
important
> >to give them good answers.
> >c) Other authors see my copyright notice, and happily give me a
copy of
> >their work with it's copyright notice, so we both get to feel
good about
> >the exchange.
> >
> >One ''unauthorized" translation appeared in the Ukraine
years later,
> >resulting in a series of messages where someone in the US, who
had never
> >met me, booked in 10 hours of sessions with me.
"Unauthorized" copies have
> >been a significant factor in how I have been able to travel the
world
> >continuously for 4 years without going hungry.
> >
> >I like Judith's notice because it requests keeping a work
complete. Also
> >because I immediately imagined a CD with other works on it, like
"10 ways
> >to go Free, price free." I could perhaps donate
"Soul Retrieval
> >Counselling" to it.
> >
> >My suggestion would be for Greg to ask Anne Walker (because they
only live
> >50Km apart) for him, Judith, and/or Flemming to be copyright
holders for
> >the agreement that TROM be free via Internet, including
copyright notice
> >provided coppied in entirety, and the notice to include that
anyone who
> >prints for profit includes the notice that it may be coppied
freely. 90%
> >Judith's wording. If Anne doesn't find this interesting,
then Greg is the
> >copyright holder as he compiled and printed the work.
> >
> > * * * * * * *
* * * *
> >Rowland Anton Barkley the Deep Tranceforming....shaman
>
>
http://tranceform.org email: [email protected]
> > * * * * * *
"Create your dream and step into it"
> >
> Judith K.
Anderson
^..^
> Tel/Fax. 61-7-3844
7576 ~
\\
>
\\
>
\\
>
\\ __________
>
\ /// // \
>
1 ________ 1 \
>
1 1 1 1
>
1 1 1 1
>
>
Subject:
La Copyleft
Date:
Tue, 30 Sep 1997 01:12:20 -0400
(EDT)
From:
Homer Wilson Smith
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
Version 2, June 1991
Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA
Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.
Preamble
The licenses for most software are designed to take away your
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free
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General Public License applies to most of the Free Software
Foundation's software and to any other program whose authors commit
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using it. (Some other Free Software Foundation software is covered
by
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When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom,
not
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you
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if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it
in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things.
To protect your rights, we need to make restrictions that
forbid
anyone to deny you these rights or to ask you to surrender the
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These restrictions translate to certain responsibilities for you if
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For example, if you distribute copies of such a program,
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you have. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the
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We protect your rights with two steps: (1) copyright the software,
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Also, for each author's protection and ours, we want to make
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The precise terms and conditions for copying, distribution
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Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not
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Whether that is true depends on what the Program does.
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PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,
EITHER EXPRESSED
OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF
MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK
AS
TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD
THE
PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY
SERVICING,
REPAIR OR CORRECTION.
12. IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN
WRITING
WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MAY MODIFY AND/OR
REDISTRIBUTE THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR
DAMAGES,
INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES
ARISING
OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT
LIMITED
TO LOSS OF DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED
BY
YOU OR THIRD PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY
OTHER
PROGRAMS), EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF
THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
END OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS
Appendix: How to Apply These Terms to
Your New Programs
If you develop a new program, and you want it to be of the
greatest
possible use to the public, the best way to achieve this is to make
it
free software which everyone can redistribute and change under these
terms.
To do so, attach the following notices to the program. It is
safest
to attach them to the start of each source file to most effectively
convey the exclusion of warranty; and each file should have at least
the "copyright" line and a pointer to where the full notice is
found.
<one line to give the program's name and a brief idea of what
it does.>
Copyright (C) 19yy <name of author>
This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published
by
the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License,
or
(at your option) any later version.
This program is distributed in the hope that it will be
useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty
of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
GNU General Public License for more details.
You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public
License
along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA
02111-1307, USA
Also add information on how to contact you by electronic and paper
mail.
If the program is interactive, make it output a short notice like
this
when it starts in an interactive mode:
Gnomovision version 69, Copyright (C) 19yy name of author
Gnomovision comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type
`show w'.
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute
it
under certain conditions; type `show c' for details.
The hypothetical commands `show w' and `show c' should show the
appropriate
parts of the General Public License. Of course, the commands you use
may
be called something other than `show w' and `show c'; they could even
be
mouse-clicks or menu items--whatever suits your program.
You should also get your employer (if you work as a programmer) or
your
school, if any, to sign a "copyright disclaimer" for the
program, if
necessary. Here is a sample; alter the names:
Yoyodyne, Inc., hereby disclaims all copyright interest in the
program
`Gnomovision' (which makes passes at compilers) written by James
Hacker.
<signature of Ty Coon>, 1 April 1989
Ty Coon, President of Vice
This General Public License does not permit incorporating your program
into
proprietary programs. If your program is a subroutine library, you
may
consider it more useful to permit linking proprietary applications with
the
library. If this is what you want to do, use the GNU Library General
Public License instead of this License.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith News, Web, Telnet Art
Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 E-mail, FTP,
Shell Internet Access, Ithaca NY
[email protected] [email protected]
http://www.lightlink.com
Subject:
Copyright Copyleft
Date:
Mon, 6 Oct 1997 04:09:53 -0400
From:
Rowland Barkley
<[email protected]>
To:
TROM
<[email protected]>
While Homer's idea re Copyleft is good if anybody were to take notice
of
it, I think it is fanciful to think anybody other than computer
programmers
will bother to read it.
Few people wil have an attention span beyond 3 sentences for any
legal
mumbo-jumbo.
I would use a shortened version of Judith's notice, where Greg Pickering
is
acknowleged, and Judith or she and Greg hold the copyright for the
stated
purpose of permitting free distribution along with a request that
changed
versions be supplied with a complete original. Should this be done in
3
short sentences, some people will read it Long complicated issues
about
this have no relavence to what will happen with real people outside
your
immaginations.
* * * * * * * * * * *
Rowland Anton Barkley the Deep Tranceforming....shaman
http://tranceform.org
email: [email protected]
* * * * * * "Create your dream and step into
it"
Subject:
Re: Copyright Copyleft
Date:
Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:23:58 -0400
(EDT)
From:
"Homer W. Smith"
<[email protected]>
To:
Rowland Barkley
<[email protected]>
CC:
TROM
<[email protected]>
> While Homer's idea re Copyleft is good if anybody were to take
notice of
> it, I think it is fanciful to think anybody other than computer
programmers
> will bother to read it.
>
> Few people wil have an attention span beyond 3 sentences for any
legal
> mumbo-jumbo.
>
> I would use a shortened version of Judith's notice, where Greg
Pickering is
> acknowleged, and Judith or she and Greg hold the copyright for the
stated
> purpose of permitting free distribution along with a request that
changed
> versions be supplied with a complete original. Should this be
done in 3
> short sentences, some people will read it Long complicated
issues about
> this have no relavence to what will happen with real people outside
your
> immaginations.
I fully agree, I never intended that the GNU copyleft be used as
is,
it was intended only to show the intent behind what I was trying to
say.
1.) People should have no question that the work can be
copied
and redistributed for free or for pay.
2.) Original copyright notices must be retained.
3.) Altered copies of the work must contain references to
where
original copies may be obtained, both on the net and in print from
distributors.
I would not force altered copies to contain copies of
the
original work.
Homer
Subject:
Re: trom-l posting to clear-l
Date:
Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:09:55
+1000
From:
"RVH"
<[email protected]>
To:
"TROM-L"
<[email protected]>, <[email protected]>
-----Original Message-----
From: Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
To: RVH <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, 20 October 1997 15:46
Subject: trom-l posting to clear-l
>To RVH, copy to trom-l subscribers.
>
>Dear RVH,
>
>I happened to see that you posted the last TROM-l message on
clear-l.
>This will result in it being posted to the news group
>alt.clearing.technology.
>
>I, and probably other members of trom-l, would be very interested
to
>know whether you have posted other trom-l messages. We would like to
see
>a fairly representative picture being given of TROM, which would
include
>some of the messages of gains from TROM.
>
>You were on trom-l when I took it over in June, so I know nothing
about
>other than the address. It would be nice therefore if you gave a
little
>description of yourself, including how far you have come with TROM,
and
>what you have got out of it.
>
>With all best wishes,
>
>Ant
>--
>
Ant
Antony A Phillips
> [email protected]
>
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
>
Box 78
>
DK - 2800 Lyngby
>Administrator, Trom-l
>
>
Hi Ant and everyone on TROM-L,
I have been on TROM-L for quite a while, and while I haven't posted
anything, I have read everything that was posted and have filed it away
for
future use.
My background is as follows:
I have been practicing vasious forms of esoterics since 1976, mainly
eastern
meditation practices. Last year I became interested in Scio, and
approached
the COS and asked for auditing in order to assess its value. I was told
I
was an "illegal" PC, because I was still meditating, and could
not have
auditing. I could however have training. This was ridiculus in my
estimation, because why would I want to train in something like
Scio,
without having the opportunity to first assess its value. (whether it
worked
or not, how effective it was in comparison to other "stuff" I
had used). I
was therefore "frustrated" in my attempts to check it
out.
At this stage, I knew very little about Cos. I soon discovered a wealth
of
info on the internet, and after reading everything that was available,
was
soon *VERY GLAD* the Cos had "rejected* me. :-))
I also discovered the Freezone, and was able to have some auditing. I
did
"Life repair" and some Grades, before finding TROM thru IVY. I
ran some TROM
and found it very good. I am still running it sporadically, and intend
to
run it to completion at some future stage, which is why I am keeping up
to
date thru TROM-L. I don't really have much to report, which is why I
haven't
posted anything. I am still on level 3.
I am active on clear-L, and am running the Animal mind tech which was
posted
by Michael Mourer. Am also running some of Norman Culver's tech, all
with
very good results.
In answer to your questions, I have posted some of my own comments
about
TROM to clear-L, and generally attempted to keep clear-L informed about
the
recent developments regarding TROM being available on the net soon
thru
Homer and his archives. I have only ever posted positive comments
about
TROM. I did post the excellent article by Judith Methven on "Rules
and
truths for the game of life". And as you noticed I posted the
article by
Michael Bacon. This I thought would be of interest on clear-l, as it
indicates just how powerful this technique is. In no way did I
personally
consider this to be a "negative" article. I believe that posts
such as this
will generate a lot of interest in TROM among "experienced"
Scio
practicioners.
Hope this answers your questions,
Best regards,
Ron Van Haarlem
Subject:
trom-l postings to clear-l (2)
Date:
Mon, 20 Oct 1997 18:04:20
+0200
From:
Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
CC:
[email protected]
Ron Van Haarlem - - -
copy trom-l
Dear Ron,
Many thanks for your letter.
I took you off trom-l pending a reply to my letter, and am now
reinstating you. I was concerned that other subscribers might be
unwilling to write to the list, perhaps for help in running trom (one
of
the main purposes of the list) because they did not want their comm
reposted elsewhere.
Thanks for giving details of yourself. Increases my ARC
(understanding,
goodwill, empathy, how ever you describe it) for you greatly.
Typical CofS. I have a young fellow on my 'lines' at the moment, who
wanted auditing. CofS said he must take basic course and
Purification
Rundown before he could have 50 hours auditing. He took some
cousrses,
but apparently expressed the idea that it must be possible to invent
a
bridge and no doubt similar "heresies".... Result: they ordered
him to
have three months 'pause' and offered him all his money back. Free
and
investigatory thinking not allowed!!
Very glad to hear you are getting good results on the various things
you
are working on.
I don't regard the Bacon piece as negative, but neither do I regard
it
as an indication of how powerful TROM is. I have never heard of
anything
like it with TROM, though there are accounts of something similar in
other areas (I have heard it called a free wheel, and not regarded
as
particularly positive). I regard it as probably coincidence or
misuse.
It seemed to me that the fundamental scn rule of "audit the pc at
cause"
was being violated. As I read the account it seems that he was just
letting things happen, rather than causing them to happen, but I was
hoping some one who had used the technique would come with
comments.
The point about the negative is:
Peoples viewpoints and interpretations differ greatly (in fact
people
with a particular stone to grind can really twist a communication),
and
it is wise to imagine how different people would take a specific
communication. Some of the people on a.c.t. seem to be trying to
stop
_any_ form of spiritual advancement, and would interpret it as
negative,
and a piece of ammunition. I could well imagine the headlines that
peice
would get in our local "rag" here, "extraBladet".
Something like: TROM
causes fifty hour psychotic spin".
I am very glad to hear that you are you have only posted positive
comments about TROM - very glad, as I feel there is not enough
promotion
of TROM.
No reposts.
We don't want rules particularly, but I think I will introduce a
rule
for trom-l. Subscribers not allowed to post other peoples
contributions
(including as quotes) to other lists or to news groups. It is a
private
group, which any one interested can join (if that is not a
contradiction).
The reason is that I regard trom-l as a very important line for
people
to get help in running TROM. Some might be discouraged from doing so,
or
might limit the data they gave, if they were uncertain how public it
would become.
In actual fact I would rather expect people doing TROM, an action
which
requires some guts, to be willing to have their self-imagined faults
and
weaknesses made public, but..... If a trommer is feeling lousy
becasue
something or other has gone wrong, s/he might not be at her/his most
couragous. So lets make things safe for any one who might get into
trouble, and assure them confidentuality within the group.
All best wishes,
Ant
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Administrator, TROM-l
Subject:
Re: trom-l postings to clear-l
(2)
Date:
Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:56:21
-0400
From:
[email protected] (Robert
Ducharme)
To:
[email protected],
[email protected]
CC:
[email protected]
At 06:04 PM 10/20/97 +0200, [email protected] wrote:
>No reposts.
>
>We don't want rules particularly, but I think I will introduce a
rule
>for trom-l. Subscribers not allowed to post other peoples
contributions
>(including as quotes) to other lists or to news groups. It is a
private
>group, which any one interested can join (if that is not a
>contradiction).
>
>The reason is that I regard trom-l as a very important line for
people
>to get help in running TROM. Some might be discouraged from doing so,
or
>might limit the data they gave, if they were uncertain how public
it
>would become.
>
>In actual fact I would rather expect people doing TROM, an action
which
>requires some guts, to be willing to have their self-imagined faults
and
>weaknesses made public, but..... If a trommer is feeling lousy
becasue
>something or other has gone wrong, s/he might not be at her/his
most
>couragous. So lets make things safe for any one who might get
into
>trouble, and assure them confidentuality within the group.
>
>All best wishes,
>
>Ant
I must admit I was tempted to repost the article to clear-l myself.
I
wonder if it would be possible to at times waive that rule by asking
the
poster and anybody mentioned in the post for permission for reposting.
Robert
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
GPM Clearing by
telephone
* Technology for the
recovery of
*
advanced spiritual
abilities
*
http://users.ctinet.net/voltr
*
Full procedure writeup
available from
*
http://super.zippo.com/~freezone/articles/index.htm *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Subject:
Re: trom-l postings to clear-l
(2)
Date:
Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:56:21
-0400
From:
[email protected] (Robert
Ducharme)
To:
[email protected],
[email protected]
CC:
[email protected]
At 06:04 PM 10/20/97 +0200, [email protected] wrote:
>No reposts.
>
>We don't want rules particularly, but I think I will introduce a
rule
>for trom-l. Subscribers not allowed to post other peoples
contributions
>(including as quotes) to other lists or to news groups. It is a
private
>group, which any one interested can join (if that is not a
>contradiction).
>
>The reason is that I regard trom-l as a very important line for
people
>to get help in running TROM. Some might be discouraged from doing so,
or
>might limit the data they gave, if they were uncertain how public
it
>would become.
>
>In actual fact I would rather expect people doing TROM, an action
which
>requires some guts, to be willing to have their self-imagined faults
and
>weaknesses made public, but..... If a trommer is feeling lousy
becasue
>something or other has gone wrong, s/he might not be at her/his
most
>couragous. So lets make things safe for any one who might get
into
>trouble, and assure them confidentuality within the group.
>
>All best wishes,
>
>Ant
I must admit I was tempted to repost the article to clear-l myself.
I
wonder if it would be possible to at times waive that rule by asking
the
poster and anybody mentioned in the post for permission for reposting.
Robert
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
GPM Clearing by
telephone
* Technology for the
recovery of
*
advanced spiritual
abilities
*
http://users.ctinet.net/voltr
*
Full procedure writeup
available from
*
http://super.zippo.com/~freezone/articles/index.htm *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Subject:
Re: trom-l
postings to clear-l (2)
Date:
Mon, 20 Oct 1997
20:59:14 +0200
From:
Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
To:
Robert Ducharme
<[email protected]>
CC:
[email protected], [email protected]
References:
1
Whoops, most certainly.
I meant to write "without the persons permission". In due
course I will
add it to the list info, so all new people get it.
The idea is to let the author retain control of distribution. That
is
sort of the spirit of the rule.
Hi,
Ant
P.S: Robert - what about a comment on replay 42 - you like the
headline
I made up? Does it represent the truth in your universe?
Robert Ducharme wrote:
>
> At 06:04 PM 10/20/97 +0200, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >No reposts.
> >
> >We don't want rules particularly, but I think I will introduce a
rule
> >for trom-l. Subscribers not allowed to post other peoples
contributions
> >(including as quotes) to other lists or to news groups. It is a
private
> >group, which any one interested can join (if that is not a
> >contradiction).
> >
> >The reason is that I regard trom-l as a very important line for
people
> >to get help in running TROM. Some might be discouraged from
doing so, or
> >might limit the data they gave, if they were uncertain how
public it
> >would become.
> >
> >In actual fact I would rather expect people doing TROM, an
action which
> >requires some guts, to be willing to have their self-imagined
faults and
> >weaknesses made public, but..... If a trommer is feeling
lousy becasue
> >something or other has gone wrong, s/he might not be at her/his
most
> >couragous. So lets make things safe for any one who might get
into
> >trouble, and assure them confidentuality within the group.
> >
> >All best wishes,
> >
> >Ant
>
> I must admit I was tempted to repost the article to clear-l
myself. I
> wonder if it would be possible to at times waive that rule by asking
the
> poster and anybody mentioned in the post for permission for
reposting.
>
> Robert
>
> * * * *
* * * * *
* * * * * *
>
>
GPM Clearing by telephone
> *
Technology for the recovery
of
*
>
advanced spiritual abilities
> *
http://users.ctinet.net/voltr
*
> Full
procedure writeup available from
> *
http://super.zippo.com/~freezone/articles/index.htm *
>
> * * * *
* * * * *
* * * * *
*
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Subject:
Re: trom-l postings to clear-l
(2)
Date:
Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:55:12
-0400
From:
[email protected] (Robert
Ducharme)
To:
[email protected]
CC:
[email protected],
[email protected]
At 08:59 PM 10/20/97 +0200, [email protected] <Antony Phillips>
wrote:
>
>P.S: Robert - what about a comment on replay 42 - you like the
headline
>I made up? Does it represent the truth in your universe?
>
>
About your headline, I was surprised to hear that you had not done
TROM
yourself even though you're sponsoring TROM-L.
I've heard good things about the subject, though, like you, I
haven't
actually tried it. One of these days I'll just break down and send
Flemming
$40. for the materials. With my luck, just watch it get posted on the
net
right after I send the check in the mail.
In reading the article by Michael Bacon, I thought about how TROM
might,
under certain circumstances or conditions, work well with what I do
(GPM
Clearing). I had no doubts that the masses he stirred up but didn't run
out
could be fully and terminatedly cleaned up with GPM Clearing. I also
thought a process like TROM, if it stirs up masses the way it
apparantly
does, would be a useful tool for uncovering masses to run out, whether
with
TROM, GPM Clearing, or some other method.
All in all, the article made me even more desirous to get the materials
and
try them out for myself.
I'm still lurking, studying and learning at this time, though. One day
when
I decide to seriously apply the technique, I'll hopefully have some
useful
data to contribute to the threads.
Robert
Below this line is a copy of replay 42
==========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:34:31 +0200
From: Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Replay 42
This is rather unusual. Since I am not doing and have not done TROM,
I
will refrain from commenting, hoping others will more capable and
experienced in TROM will make constructive comments. I can not find
_anyone_ who commented on this despatch on trom-l when it first went
out.
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TROM-L Ä
Msg : 207 of
289
Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Flemming
Funch
236/174.10 Sat 12 Aug 95
06:54
To : Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
Sun 13 Aug 95
20:22
Subj : My Trip (tm)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Flemming Funch)
Subject: My Trip (tm)
>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 01:21:31 -0500
>From: "Michael J. Bacon" <[email protected]>
>Subject: My Trip (tm)
>
>Hello,
>
> As some of you have
noticed, I have been rather quiet as of
>late.
>
> Two main reasons...
First work has been very hectic lately, as
>those spring deadlines really need to be done before the end of
the
>year! :)
>
> Second, I have been
interiorizing to an unhealty degree on my
>case, and specifically some really heavy GPMs.
>
> I have come to the
conclusion that I've done all that can be done
>with them for now. There are some cogs that have ignited
this.
>
> First, I realized that
sometimes, ones case could get much
>"worse" before it gets better. Especially when you
try to confront too
>much at once (and alone, at that) case starts blowing disorder
literally
>in your "face", and once can downslide rather than get a
good true release.
>
> If I don't float away from
a session I consider that I've done
>something wrong. Lately, I've been crawling away from session,
even
>though massive stuff has been blowing...
>
> The largest example of
this was last week. Wed night, I started
>off with my usual TROM session. I've been going back and forth
on levels
>4 and 5 for the last couple of months with great success. This
session,
>like most of the others lately, I start to ponder communication
and
>specifically telepathic communication.
>
> Maybe its because I've
never had my true grades, but the subject
>of comm is still a touchy one.
>
> Anyway, I started
"free-forming", that is, running the different
>legs of TROM style GPM stuff on just whatever happens to come to
mind.
>Anyway, I started to get anaten, and then I entered a trancelike
state.
>
> It was a state I have
never been in before to my recollection. It
>was like an acid trip times a million.
>
> For what *seemed* like a
few hours I was subjected to a flood of
>images, sensations and especially emotions... Emotions the like
of which
>I have rarely had cause to feel this lifetime. I've had
relatives die,
>but the sadness that would wash over me at times was almost too much
to
>handle. I've been happy and content, but the peace and ARC that
would
>come over me at other times was narcotic like.
>
> One series I remember
quite vividly for some reason involved
>being hung from a tree by a Tim Curry from Stephen King's It.
Clown
>suit, balloons and all.
>
> Another sequence involved
a conversation with my grandmother
>Conrad (my mom's mom) that I never actually had. It was a
conversation
>in PT, about PT stuff like she was alive.
>
> Another sequence was
frightingly similar to some of Homer's
>visions, where demon's hung a group of us on hooks while they ripped
our
>groins out and ate them while we bled to death. I remember the
demons
>had tattos all over their bodies, and that they had very long,
white,
>razorsharp fingernails.
>
> There were definately more
images like this than not.
>
> The funny thing was, not
once did anything seem out of place. I
>was totally wrapped up in whatever this was. Far more than in
my sleep
>dreams. Everything seemed very real, and not once did I realize
that I
>was still sitting on my couch in Dallas Texas.
>
> Until I came back.
As suddenly as it all started, it stopped.
>My eyes were caked shut from the gunk that had built up from tears
and
>what not. I looked at the clock... 2:00am it read.
>
> This episode started at
around 7:30pm Wednesday. I was pretty
>freaked that I was gone that long... and then I looked at the
date.
>
> IT WAS 2:00AM SATURDAY
MORNING. I had sat there and spun for more
>than 50 hours!
>
> The enormity of what
happened sunk in at that point. That was
>very dangerous... much longer and I could've been in serious
trouble. As
>it was I was so dehydrated I drank too much and got sick. Then
I got leg
>cramps really bad from lack of nutrition.
>
> I also realized I need
someone around when I try junk like this.
>Sheesh.
>
> Anyway... I do feel
better. I do feel the experience was
>worthwhile, and now that I've slept some, I feel much less
massy. But
>I'm taking a break from soloing TROM for awhile. I'm going to
check out
>Alan Walter's Paradigm Tech here in Dallas, and see what that's all
about.
>
> Anyone have anything
remotely similar to this? Any conjectures
>as to what the heck happened. What I get is that I got in comm
with some
>dude that just had so much to say that he overwhelmed me.
>
>
>Peace,
>Michael.
>
___________________________________________________________________
>| Michael J. Bacon | Public PGP Key available in
ftp.netcom.com
@ |\
>| [email protected] | pub/mbacon/mbacon.asc (version
2.6) | |
>|___________________K____________________________C__________________|
|
> \_________________/_\_______Think
Theta!_______/_\__________________\|
>
C
R
R A
>
>
>
o
o
/ \------------------ Flemming A. Funch ------------------/ \
/ * \ World Transformation/New Civilization/Whole Systems / *
\
/ * *
\
[email protected]
/ * * \
o-------o
---------
http://newciv.org/worldtrans/----------o-------o
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
Subject:
Re: trom-l postings to clear-l
(2)
Date:
Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:55:12
-0400
From:
[email protected] (Robert
Ducharme)
To:
[email protected]
CC:
[email protected],
[email protected]
At 08:59 PM 10/20/97 +0200, [email protected] <Antony Phillips>
wrote:
>
>P.S: Robert - what about a comment on replay 42 - you like the
headline
>I made up? Does it represent the truth in your universe?
>
>
About your headline, I was surprised to hear that you had not done
TROM
yourself even though you're sponcering TROM-L.
I've heard good things about the subject, though, like you, I
haven't
actually tried it. One of these days I'll just break down and send
Flemming
$40. for the materials. With my luck, just watch it get posted on the
net
right after I send the check in the mail.
In reading the article by Michael Bacon, I thought about how TROM
might,
under certain circumstances or conditions, work well with what I do
(GPM
Clearing). I had no doubts that the masses he stirred up but didn't run
out
could be fully and terminatedly cleaned up with GPM Clearing. I also
thought a process like TROM, if it stirs up masses the way it
apparantly
does, would be a useful tool for uncovering masses to run out, whether
with
TROM, GPM Clearing, or some other method.
All in all, the article made me even more desirous to get the materials
and
try them out for myself.
I'm still lurking, studying and learning at this time, though. One day
when
I decide to seriously apply the technique, I'll hopefully have some
useful
data to contribute to the threads.
Robert
Below this line is a copy of replay 42
==========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:34:31 +0200
From: Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Replay 42
This is rather unusual. Since I am not doing and have not done TROM,
I
will refrain from commenting, hoping others will more capable and
experienced in TROM will make constructive comments. I can not find
_anyone_ who commented on this despatch on trom-l when it first went
out.
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TROM-L Ä
Msg : 207 of
289
Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Flemming
Funch
236/174.10 Sat 12 Aug 95
06:54
To : Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
Sun 13 Aug 95
20:22
Subj : My Trip (tm)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Flemming Funch)
Subject: My Trip (tm)
>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 01:21:31 -0500
>From: "Michael J. Bacon" <[email protected]>
>Subject: My Trip (tm)
>
>Hello,
>
> As some of you have
noticed, I have been rather quiet as of
>late.
>
> Two main reasons...
First work has been very hectic lately, as
>those spring deadlines really need to be done before the end of
the
>year! :)
>
> Second, I have been
interiorizing to an unhealty degree on my
>case, and specifically some really heavy GPMs.
>
> I have come to the
conclusion that I've done all that can be done
>with them for now. There are some cogs that have ignited
this.
>
> First, I realized that
sometimes, ones case could get much
>"worse" before it gets better. Especially when you
try to confront too
>much at once (and alone, at that) case starts blowing disorder
literally
>in your "face", and once can downslide rather than get a
good true release.
>
> If I don't float away from
a session I consider that I've done
>something wrong. Lately, I've been crawling away from session,
even
>though massive stuff has been blowing...
>
> The largest example of
this was last week. Wed night, I started
>off with my usual TROM session. I've been going back and forth
on levels
>4 and 5 for the last couple of months with great success. This
session,
>like most of the others lately, I start to ponder communication
and
>specifically telepathic communication.
>
> Maybe its because I've
never had my true grades, but the subject
>of comm is still a touchy one.
>
> Anyway, I started
"free-forming", that is, running the different
>legs of TROM style GPM stuff on just whatever happens to come to
mind.
>Anyway, I started to get anaten, and then I entered a trancelike
state.
>
> It was a state I have
never been in before to my recollection. It
>was like an acid trip times a million.
>
> For what *seemed* like a
few hours I was subjected to a flood of
>images, sensations and especially emotions... Emotions the like
of which
>I have rarely had cause to feel this lifetime. I've had
relatives die,
>but the sadness that would wash over me at times was almost too much
to
>handle. I've been happy and content, but the peace and ARC that
would
>come over me at other times was narcotic like.
>
> One series I remember
quite vividly for some reason involved
>being hung from a tree by a Tim Curry from Stephen King's It.
Clown
>suit, balloons and all.
>
> Another sequence involved
a conversation with my grandmother
>Conrad (my mom's mom) that I never actually had. It was a
conversation
>in PT, about PT stuff like she was alive.
>
> Another sequence was
frightingly similar to some of Homer's
>visions, where demon's hung a group of us on hooks while they ripped
our
>groins out and ate them while we bled to death. I remember the
demons
>had tattos all over their bodies, and that they had very long,
white,
>razorsharp fingernails.
>
> There were definately more
images like this than not.
>
> The funny thing was, not
once did anything seem out of place. I
>was totally wrapped up in whatever this was. Far more than in
my sleep
>dreams. Everything seemed very real, and not once did I realize
that I
>was still sitting on my couch in Dallas Texas.
>
> Until I came back.
As suddenly as it all started, it stopped.
>My eyes were caked shut from the gunk that had built up from tears
and
>what not. I looked at the clock... 2:00am it read.
>
> This episode started at
around 7:30pm Wednesday. I was pretty
>freaked that I was gone that long... and then I looked at the
date.
>
> IT WAS 2:00AM SATURDAY
MORNING. I had sat there and spun for more
>than 50 hours!
>
> The enormity of what
happened sunk in at that point. That was
>very dangerous... much longer and I could've been in serious
trouble. As
>it was I was so dehydrated I drank too much and got sick. Then
I got leg
>cramps really bad from lack of nutrition.
>
> I also realized I need
someone around when I try junk like this.
>Sheesh.
>
> Anyway... I do feel
better. I do feel the experience was
>worthwhile, and now that I've slept some, I feel much less
massy. But
>I'm taking a break from soloing TROM for awhile. I'm going to
check out
>Alan Walter's Paradigm Tech here in Dallas, and see what that's all
about.
>
> Anyone have anything
remotely similar to this? Any conjectures
>as to what the heck happened. What I get is that I got in comm
with some
>dude that just had so much to say that he overwhelmed me.
>
>
>Peace,
>Michael.
>
___________________________________________________________________
>| Michael J. Bacon | Public PGP Key available in
ftp.netcom.com
@ |\
>| [email protected] | pub/mbacon/mbacon.asc (version
2.6) | |
>|___________________K____________________________C__________________|
|
> \_________________/_\_______Think
Theta!_______/_\__________________\|
>
C
R
R A
>
>
>
o
o
/ \------------------ Flemming A. Funch ------------------/ \
/ * \ World Transformation/New Civilization/Whole Systems / *
\
/ * *
\
[email protected]
/ * * \
o-------o
---------
http://newciv.org/worldtrans/----------o-------o
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
Subject:
Re: trom-l postings to clear-l
(2)
Date:
Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:15:53
+1000
From:
Judith Anderson
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
CC:
[email protected]
Dear One and All, I endorse Antony's comments about not posting from
this
list trom-l to another without permission of author. It is a private
list
and should be kept that way. love Judith
Judith K.
Anderson
^..^
Tel/Fax. 61-7-3844 7576 ~
\\
\\
\\
\\ __________
\ /// // \
1 ________ 1 \
1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1
Subject:
Re: trom-l postings to clear-l
(2)
Date:
Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:05:39
+1000
From:
"RVH"
<[email protected]>
To:
"IVY Subscribers"
<[email protected]>, <[email protected]>
>Ron Van Haarlem - - - copy trom-l
>
>Dear Ron,
>
>Many thanks for your letter.
>
>I took you off trom-l pending a reply to my letter, and am now
>reinstating you. I was concerned that other subscribers might be
>unwilling to write to the list, perhaps for help in running trom (one
of
>the main purposes of the list) because they did not want their
comm
>reposted elsewhere.
Ok, I can under stand the concern. Actually, I personally do not like
the
fact that clear-L is roboposted to a.c.t.
>
>Thanks for giving details of yourself. Increases my ARC
(understanding,
>goodwill, empathy, how ever you describe it) for you
greatly.
Thanks.
>
>Typical CofS. I have a young fellow on my 'lines' at the moment,
who
>wanted auditing. CofS said he must take basic course and
Purification
>Rundown before he could have 50 hours auditing. He took some
cousrses,
>but apparently expressed the idea that it must be possible to invent
a
>bridge and no doubt similar "heresies".... Result: they
ordered him to
>have three months 'pause' and offered him all his money back.
Free and
>investigatory thinking not allowed!!
I'm starting to wonder if this is a new policy - "give money
back". Because
they refunded my money as well. Read the stories abounding on the web,
and
you get an entirely different picture.
>
>Very glad to hear you are getting good results on the various things
you
>are working on.
>
>I don't regard the Bacon piece as negative, but neither do I regard
it
>as an indication of how powerful TROM is. I have never heard of
anything
>like it with TROM, though there are accounts of something similar
in
>other areas (I have heard it called a free wheel, and not regarded
as
>particularly positive).
Yeh, I guess he was freewheeling. He described some horrendous stuff,
but
there sounds like there was some *very pleasant* experience in there
also.
> I regard it as probably coincidence or misuse.
>It seemed to me that the fundamental scn rule of "audit the pc
at cause"
>was being violated. As I read the account it seems that he was
just
>letting things happen, rather than causing them to happen, but I
was
>hoping some one who had used the technique would come with
comments.
It sounds to me like he didn't have much choice in the matter!
:-))
>
>The point about the negative is:
>
>Peoples viewpoints and interpretations differ greatly (in fact
people
>with a particular stone to grind can really twist a communication),
and
>it is wise to imagine how different people would take a specific
>communication. Some of the people on a.c.t. seem to be trying
to stop
>_any_ form of spiritual advancement, and would interpret it as
negative,
>and a piece of ammunition. I could well imagine the headlines that
peice
>would get in our local "rag" here, "extraBladet".
Something like: TROM
>causes fifty hour psychotic spin".
Yes, I DO see your point. I had seen the kind of negative comm you
are
talking about on a.r.s. As a rule, I don't monitor a.c.t. very much.
My
opinion is that most *intelligent* people interested in tech *see
through*
the psychotic ranters with their vested interests.
>
>I am very glad to hear that you are you have only posted
positive
>comments about TROM - very glad, as I feel there is not enough
promotion
>of TROM.
This should change when it is posted on the net. I am expecting BIG
things
of TROM when it is available to the general public via the net. I think
word
will get around VERY quickly, and we will see big interest. This will
have a
spin off of increased interest in other versions of tech. If I am right
it
will be good all around.
>
>No reposts.
>
>We don't want rules particularly, but I think I will introduce a
rule
>for trom-l. Subscribers not allowed to post other peoples
contributions
>(including as quotes) to other lists or to news groups. It is a
private
>group, which any one interested can join (if that is not a
>contradiction).
>
>The reason is that I regard trom-l as a very important line for
people
>to get help in running TROM. Some might be discouraged from doing so,
or
>might limit the data they gave, if they were uncertain how public
it
>would become.
>
>In actual fact I would rather expect people doing TROM, an action
which
>requires some guts, to be willing to have their self-imagined faults
and
>weaknesses made public, but..... If a trommer is feeling lousy
becasue
>something or other has gone wrong, s/he might not be at her/his
most
>couragous. So lets make things safe for any one who might get
into
>trouble, and assure them confidentuality within the group.
OK. No problem here with that. I also note your comm with Robert
regarding
getting permission first, and then being able to repost with the
authors
permission. Sounds good to me.
Your efforts to promote "clearing" is appreciated,
Ron Van Haarlem
>
>All best wishes,
>
>Ant
>
>
>--
>
Ant
Antony A Phillips
> [email protected]
>
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
>
Box 78
>
DK - 2800 Lyngby
>Administrator, TROM-l
>
>
>
Subject:
trom-l postings to clear-l (2)
Date:
Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:10:59
+1000
From:
"RVH"
<[email protected]>
To:
"TROM-L"
<[email protected]>
>Ron Van Haarlem - - - copy trom-l
>
>Dear Ron,
>
>Many thanks for your letter.
>
>I took you off trom-l pending a reply to my letter, and am now
>reinstating you. I was concerned that other subscribers might be
>unwilling to write to the list, perhaps for help in running trom (one
of
>the main purposes of the list) because they did not want their
comm
>reposted elsewhere.
Ok, I can under stand the concern. Actually, I personally do not like
the
fact that clear-L is roboposted to a.c.t.
>
>Thanks for giving details of yourself. Increases my ARC
(understanding,
>goodwill, empathy, how ever you describe it) for you
greatly.
Thanks.
>
>Typical CofS. I have a young fellow on my 'lines' at the moment,
who
>wanted auditing. CofS said he must take basic course and
Purification
>Rundown before he could have 50 hours auditing. He took some
cousrses,
>but apparently expressed the idea that it must be possible to invent
a
>bridge and no doubt similar "heresies".... Result: they
ordered him to
>have three months 'pause' and offered him all his money back.
Free and
>investigatory thinking not allowed!!
I'm starting to wonder if this is a new policy - "give money
back". Because
they refunded my money as well. Read the stories abounding on the web,
and
you get an entirely different picture.
>
>Very glad to hear you are getting good results on the various things
you
>are working on.
>
>I don't regard the Bacon piece as negative, but neither do I regard
it
>as an indication of how powerful TROM is. I have never heard of
anything
>like it with TROM, though there are accounts of something similar
in
>other areas (I have heard it called a free wheel, and not regarded
as
>particularly positive).
Yeh, I guess he was freewheeling. He described some horrendous stuff,
but
there sounds like there was some *very pleasant* experience in there
also.
> I regard it as probably coincidence or misuse.
>It seemed to me that the fundamental scn rule of "audit the pc
at cause"
>was being violated. As I read the account it seems that he was
just
>letting things happen, rather than causing them to happen, but I
was
>hoping some one who had used the technique would come with
comments.
It sounds to me like he didn't have much choice in the matter!
:-))
>
>The point about the negative is:
>
>Peoples viewpoints and interpretations differ greatly (in fact
people
>with a particular stone to grind can really twist a communication),
and
>it is wise to imagine how different people would take a specific
>communication. Some of the people on a.c.t. seem to be trying
to stop
>_any_ form of spiritual advancement, and would interpret it as
negative,
>and a piece of ammunition. I could well imagine the headlines that
peice
>would get in our local "rag" here, "extraBladet".
Something like: TROM
>causes fifty hour psychotic spin".
Yes, I DO see your point. I had seen the kind of negative comm you
are
talking about on a.r.s. As a rule, I don't monitor a.c.t. very much.
My
opinion is that most *intelligent* people interested in tech *see
through*
the psychotic ranters with their vested interests.
>
>I am very glad to hear that you are you have only posted
positive
>comments about TROM - very glad, as I feel there is not enough
promotion
>of TROM.
This should change when it is posted on the net. I am expecting BIG
things
of TROM when it is available to the general public via the net. I think
word
will get around VERY quickly, and we will see big interest. This will
have a
spin off of increased interest in other versions of tech. If I am right
it
will be good all around.
>
>No reposts.
>
>We don't want rules particularly, but I think I will introduce a
rule
>for trom-l. Subscribers not allowed to post other peoples
contributions
>(including as quotes) to other lists or to news groups. It is a
private
>group, which any one interested can join (if that is not a
>contradiction).
>
>The reason is that I regard trom-l as a very important line for
people
>to get help in running TROM. Some might be discouraged from doing so,
or
>might limit the data they gave, if they were uncertain how public
it
>would become.
>
>In actual fact I would rather expect people doing TROM, an action
which
>requires some guts, to be willing to have their self-imagined faults
and
>weaknesses made public, but..... If a trommer is feeling lousy
becasue
>something or other has gone wrong, s/he might not be at her/his
most
>couragous. So lets make things safe for any one who might get
into
>trouble, and assure them confidentuality within the group.
OK. No problem here with that. I also note your comm with Robert
regarding
getting permission first, and then being able to repost with the
authors
permission. Sounds good to me.
Your efforts to promote "clearing" is appreciated,
Ron Van Haarlem
>
>All best wishes,
>
>Ant
>
>
>--
>
Ant
Antony A Phillips
> [email protected]
>
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
>
Box 78
>
DK - 2800 Lyngby
>Administrator, TROM-l
>
>
>
Subject:
Thanks - Any more comments?
Date:
Tue, 21 Oct 1997 06:50:46
+0200
From:
Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Thanks to Robert Ducharme for his comments on replay 42.
I will probably repost the thread which started when I told why I
was
not running TROM. Do it when we have got to the end of these replays.
As
you can see, Replay 42 was number 207 of 289 which I have available
(some of which are not of interest/suitable for replay - I try to
avoid
quoting what is in the same posting, though do not make a big thing
out
of editing).
As previously stated, I have an enourmous admiration for the way
Dennis
Stephens made TROM levels 1, 2 and 3 out of Scientology research,
making
it a do it yourself thing, and am glad to play a small part in
helping
the free and succesful use of the material.
And I am _very_ curious about how others on the list felt about
Replay
42. In fact so interested that I will not post a replay this
Wednesday,
in the hope that we can get a bit more news from the spectators. What
do
they think, and are they using TROM.
I suspect we would be a more live and interesting group if we knew a
bit
more about each other. There are 41 people, spread about different
places on the earth, subscribeing to TROM-l
All best wishes,
Ant
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
administrator trom-l
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l,
previous-life-scio and IVy lists
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l,
previous-life-scio and IVy lists
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
--
_______________________________________________
TROM mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
