*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Sent
18th of July 2016 (delayed
due to Ant's holiday)
by
[email protected] (Antony Phillips)
Another weekly echo from the past century.
Note that this
is a resend of a message sent some years ago, and some data (like
addresses) is
liable to be inaccurate.
- - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - -
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Subject:
TROM Replay 52
Date:
Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:42:27 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l, IVy
lists
Subject:
Request for help and
information
Date:
Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:49:56
+-300
From:
Nori Avidan
<[email protected]>
To:
"'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>
Hello everybody,
I saw TROM on the Internet
yesterday, downloded it, read it and was very enthusiasmatic
about the chances it looks to ofer towards a real NIRVANA.
I have a few questions:
1. What EXACTLY means "Create something" &
"Have another create
something" ? Please give some examples.
2. May I safely run TROM even if I'm right now engaged in
traditional
Scientology processing like Purification Rundown, TRs & Objectives
and ARC
Straightwire ?
3. Since "NIRVANA" appears to be TROM goal, does any one
know how the
Budhism "Meditation" should bring someone to the same goal ? I
mean what is
the working mechanism in terms of postulates,games etc. ?
Thanks for all responses
Subject:
Re: Request for help and
information
Date:
Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:24:36
-0700
From:
"Maximilian J.
Sandor" <[email protected]>
To:
Nori Avidan
<[email protected]>, "'[email protected]'"
<[email protected]>
Nori,
while TROM is a fascinating tool, the 'nirvana' claims
of Stephens are his own 'extrapolation of results' and are based
entirely on his own specific interpretation of the 'nirvana'
concept.
You may want to have a look at my 'Little Purple Notebook
On how To Escape From This Universe' which discusses the
main aspects of TROM as well as Gotamo Siddharto's _original_
philosophy.
http://transmillennium.net/pnohteftu/
According to Gotamo, there are two ways to total freedom
('nirvana'): the path of reasoning and the path of meditation.
TROM belongs to the 'reasoning' path and has nothing to do
with meditation as such.
(Note: according to Gotamo, only the 'reasoning path' is
doable for _everybody_ whereas the 'meditation path' is severely
booby-trapped and inherently unsafe. More explanations are
in the 'Purple Notebook...'..)
best wishes for your progress (whichever route you may go),
mx
At 08:49 PM 4/26/98 +-300, Nori Avidan wrote:
>Hello everybody,
>
> I saw TROM on the Internet
yesterday, downloded it, read it and was
very
enthusiasmatic
>about the chances it looks to ofer towards a real NIRVANA.
>
>I have a few questions:
>
> 1. What EXACTLY means "Create something" &
"Have another create
something" ? Please give some examples.
> 2. May I safely run TROM even if I'm write now engaged in
traditional
Scientology processing like Purification Rundown, TRs & Objectives
and ARC
Straightwire ?
> 3. Since "NIRVANA" apears to be TROM goal, does any
one know how the
Budhism "Meditation" should bring somone to the same goal ? I
mean what is
the working mechanism in terms of postulates,games etc. ?
>
>Thanks for all responses
>
>
>
Subject:
Re: Request for help and
information
Date:
Wed, 29 Apr 1998 01:59:39
+1000
From:
"RVH"
<[email protected]>
To:
"Clear-L"
<[email protected]>, "TROM-L"
<[email protected]>,
"Nori Avidan"
<[email protected]>
Dear Nori,
I also am very enthusiastic about TROM, and also believe it offers a real
chance
for "Nirvana".
I started running TROM some time ago but stopped and have now begun to
run it again.
In answer to your questions:
1. I can only tell you how I run it. There are probably other ways to
run this
but I "create something" by visualising things 360 degrees
around me. For
instance, I would look to my left and visualise a cat sitting there. Then
I
would look to my right or wherever and visualise something else etc. In
order to
"have another create something", I would visualise another
being/cartoon
character/animal/whatever, and then imagine them visualising something.
Another
way to run this type of process is, visualise a cat, and then get the
idea
that the cat is hungry and looking to you for food (have another create
an
importance). So as you can see there are many ways of doing
this.
2. I believe so, however, I would caution you to follow the
instructions
carefully. Dennis goes to a lot of trouble in TROM warning of the
consequences
of not following the procedures exactly. For example, running RI's when
you
should. I found out the hard way recently about the importance of running
RI's.
Also for example, I wouldn't advise you to attempt to run a higher level
unless
you are sure you
have completed the previous level/s. This is what Dennis is adamant about
in the
manual, so it would be reasonable to assume that it is important. Most
of the
criticism of TROM I have seen
has been from those who have attempted to look at all the levels
without
progressing one level at a time. These people were very experienced and
wanted
to quickly assess the Tech. They thought they could therefore look at
whatever
they wanted in TROM. The problem I see with this, is that according to
what
Dennis says in the manual, if you attempt a higher level without having
run
the
previous levels to completion, at best it will not run. So bear this in
mind
when you read any criticism. Has the person criticising TROM completed
the
process up to the level he/she is criticising. If not, then I would be
careful
about
what was said.
3. I'm afraid I don't have the time to adequately answer this one. In
any
case it would just be opinion.
Good luck running TROM!!
rvh
>Hello everybody,
>I saw TROM on the Internet yesterday, downloded it, read it and was
very
enthusiasmatic
>about the chances it looks to ofer towards a real NIRVANA.
>I have a few questions:
>1. What EXACTLY means "Create something" &
"Have another create
something" ?
Please give some >examples.
>2. May I safely run TROM even if I'm write now engaged in
traditional
Scientology processing like Purification >Rundown, TRs &
Objectives and ARC
Straightwire ?
>3. Since "NIRVANA" apears to be TROM goal, does any
one know how the Budhism
"Meditation" should >bring somone to the same goal ? I mean
what is the
working
mechanism in terms of postulates,games etc. ?
>Thanks for all responses
Subject:
Re: Request for help and
information
Date:
Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:00:29
+1000
From:
"RVH"
<[email protected]>
To:
"TROM-L"
<[email protected]>, "Maximilian J. Sandor"
<[email protected]>
>Nori,
>
>while TROM is a fascinating tool, the 'nirvana' claims
>of Stephens are his own 'extrapolation of results' and are based
>entirely on his own specific interpretation of the 'nirvana'
concept.
I would have to agree to this statement because Dennis had not completed
level 5
at the time of his death. He therefore was "extrapolating" the
results of
completion. However, I do believe his reasons for claiming this are as
plausible
as any other "way". No one has yet completed TROM to my
knowledge, so we will
have to wait and see if he was right.
As for Dennis' "own specific interpretation of the 'nirvana'
concept", I think
we could assume he meant the end result of all envisioned tech. That is,
the
state you would reach where there is no longer any need to run any
further tech
of any description, whatever that state is. Any attempt to explain this
state
using any kind of language would have to be invalid. It could at best
only hint
at what this state means. I think from reading the manual that this is
what
Dennis meant by Nirvana. He made no attempt to explain the state, he just
said
the completion of TROM would result in it. He also said you would have a
taste
of it during level 3, I think.
rvh
>
>You may want to have a look at my 'Little Purple Notebook
>On how To Escape From This Universe' which discusses the
>main aspects of TROM as well as Gotamo Siddharto's _original_
>philosophy.
>
>
http://transmillennium.net/pnohteftu/
>
>According to Gotamo, there are two ways to total freedom
>('nirvana'): the path of reasoning and the path of meditation.
>
>TROM belongs to the 'reasoning' path and has nothing to do
>with meditation as such.
>
>(Note: according to Gotamo, only the 'reasoning path' is
>doable for _everybody_ whereas the 'meditation path' is severely
>booby-trapped and inherently unsafe. More explanations are
>in the 'Purple Notebook...'..)
>
>best wishes for your progress (whichever route you may go),
>
>mx
>
>
>
>At 08:49 PM 4/26/98 +-300, Nori Avidan wrote:
>>Hello everybody,
>>
>> I saw TROM on the Internet yesterday, downloded it, read it and
was very
>enthusiasmatic
>>about the chances it looks to ofer towards a real NIRVANA.
>>
>>I have a few questions:
>>
>> 1. What EXACTLY means "Create something"
& "Have another create
>something" ? Please give some examples.
>> 2. May I safely run TROM even if I'm write now engaged in
traditional
>Scientology processing like Purification Rundown, TRs &
Objectives and ARC
>Straightwire ?
>> 3. Since "NIRVANA" apears to be TROM goal, does
any one know how the
>Budhism "Meditation" should bring somone to the same goal ?
I mean what is
>the working mechanism in terms of postulates,games etc. ?
>>
>>Thanks for all responses
>>
>>
>>
>
Subject:
Re: Nori Avidan Request for
help and information
Date:
Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:50:55
+0200
From:
Rowland Barkley
<[email protected]>
To:
<[email protected]>
At 18:28 26-04-98 -0400, you wrote:
>X-Sender: [email protected]
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32)
>Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:24:36 -0700
>To: Nori Avidan <[email protected]>,
>
"'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>
>From: "Maximilian J. Sandor"
<[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Request for help and information
>In-Reply-To:
<[email protected]>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Nori,
>
>while TROM is a fascinating tool, the 'nirvana' claims
>of Stephens are his own 'extrapolation of results' and are based
>entirely on his own specific interpretation of the 'nirvana'
concept.
>
>You may want to have a look at my 'Little Purple Notebook
>On how To Escape From This Universe' which discusses the
>main aspects of TROM as well as Gotamo Siddharto's _original_
>philosophy.
>
>
http://transmillennium.net/pnohteftu/
>
>According to Gotamo, there are two ways to total freedom
>('nirvana'): the path of reasoning and the path of meditation.
>
>TROM belongs to the 'reasoning' path and has nothing to do
>with meditation as such.
>
>(Note: according to Gotamo, only the 'reasoning path' is
>doable for _everybody_ whereas the 'meditation path' is severely
>booby-trapped and inherently unsafe. More explanations are
>in the 'Purple Notebook...'..)
>
>best wishes for your progress (whichever route you may go),
>
>mx
>
>
>
>At 08:49 PM 4/26/98 +-300, Nori Avidan wrote:
>>Hello everybody,
>>
>> I saw TROM on the Internet
yesterday, downloded it, read it and was
very
>enthusiasmatic
>>about the chances it looks to ofer towards a real NIRVANA.
>>
>>I have a few questions:
>>
>> 1. What EXACTLY means "Create something"
& "Have another create
>something" ? Please give some examples.
>> 2. May I safely run TROM even if I'm write now engaged in
traditional
>Scientology processing like Purification Rundown, TRs &
Objectives and ARC
>Straightwire ?
>> 3. Since "NIRVANA" apears to be TROM goal, does
any one know how the
>Budhism "Meditation" should bring somone to the same goal ?
I mean what is
>the working mechanism in terms of postulates,games etc. ?
>>
>>Thanks for all responses
Dear Nori,
As Max has given an excellent
answer to your question 3, I'll answer 2 and 1.
2) Traditionally, someone who starts the word "scientology"
with a capital
"S" is not permitted to even read about TROM, nor are they
allowed to ask
what things mean as in question 1.
1) Refer to the old OT VII pack, or mockup processes of 1953.
If your capital "s" was an accident, you need an alternative
answer to 2.
I'd say mix processes on any day you want to eat chocolate mousse in
your
curry. If the mixture tastes strange, work out which one didn't taste
right.
Rowland
* * * Rowland Anton Barkley the Deep TranceForming Shaman * * *
* * * Email: [email protected] [email protected] * * *
* * * Fax: +61-2-9475-0374
http://www.tranceform.org * * *
Subject:
Revision in Mind Matters
Date:
Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:18:33
-0700 (PDT)
From:
Allen
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Revision in Mind Matters
Hi,
I have made a revision in my book, _Mind Matters_, at Fundamentals 19
and
20, as follows below. The substance of the revision is changing
"expectation" to "conviction" and "want" to
"desire".
I think it's pertinent to tell this list about it because the
Fundamentals
given therein are applicable no matter which technical route you
use.
I hope this clarifies things a bit.
-0-
PS: The <xxx> thingies, if you see them instead of formatted text
(depends
on your mail reader), are HTML formatting codes. This is the actual
HTML
text from the website, at
http://www.asc.org/mm_book.htm
<h4>-{ 19 }-<br>
<p>
Conviction takes precedence over desire.</h4>
The intensity of resistance is always greater than the intensity of
desire;
convictions are based on experience, accrue intensity and certainty from
it,
and are therefore potent in direct relation to the amount of resistance
in
the individual's experiential reference base.
<p>
Desire, being more of an intellectual phenomenon, is more mutable
and open
to inspection and considerations of doubt than the more primal or
emotionally fixed type of belief expressed as conviction. Thus where
a
future manifestation is a variable determined within the conflict
between
desire and conviction, the reality defined by the conviction(s)
prevails.
<p>
<a href="" subject listing)</a>
-
<a href="">
<br>
<center><b><a name="20">
<img src="" width="430"
height="1">
<p>
-53-</a></b></center><p>
<h4>-{ 20 }-<br>
<p>
"Negative" conditions are unknowingly and automatically
self-inflicted.</h4>
Because attention is attached by resistance, <br>
because attention is the creative catalyst, <br>
and because experiential objects of resistance underlie conviction,
<br>
one's ongoing unknowing reference to objects of resistance supports
conditional autoselection.
<p>
Autoselection occurs unknowingly because the individual is denying
the
underlying experiential reference base in its original context and
ongoing.
<p>
Because conviction takes precedence over desire, autoselection
operates to
actualize negative conditions "in preference to" any desired
objective.
Thus, conditional autoselection.
<p>
Allen,
Speaker
| [email protected]
ASC Missions Group
-0-
http://www.asc.org
Articulate Management |
http://www.artman.com
Subject:
RE: Rowland Barkley answer to
Nori Avidan "Request for help and
information"
Date:
Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:47:05
+-300
From:
Nori Avidan
<[email protected]>
To:
"'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>
----------
>> 1. What EXACTLY means "Create something"
& "Have another create
>>something" ? Please give some examples.
>> 2. May I safely run TROM even if I'm write now engaged in
traditional
>>Scientology processing like Purification Rundown, TRs &
Objectives and ARC
>>Straightwire ?
>Dear Nori
> As Max has given an excellent
answer to your question 3, I'll
answer 2 and 1.
> 2) Traditionally, someone who starts the word
"scientology" with a capital
>"S" is not permitted to even read about TROM, nor are they
allowed to ask
>what things mean as in question 1.
>1) Refer to the old OT VII pack, or mockup processes of
1953.
Dear Rowland,
1. As a "Searcher" , I reserve myself the right to be
openminded and
realy search for the best way to get me across.
2. Even though I wrote "scientology" with a capital
"S" (English is not
my mother tongue) it doesn't mean I have any attitude for/against it (I'm
a
searcher remember ?). Anyway, I still don't have an answer regarding
my
question (I didn't get to any OT levels yet).
Nori
Subject:
Nori's
"Request for help and information"
Date:
Mon, 27 Apr
1998 22:19:19 -1000
From:
Jonathan
Good <[email protected]>
To:
Nori Avidan
<[email protected]>
CC:
"'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>
References:
1
Nori Avidan wrote:
Anyway, I still don't have an answer regarding my question
> Nori
Nori,
In answer to your question about safety:
No, it is not safe. The safest thing is to do no processing at all.
That
way nothing is changed and the status quo is preserved. But there is
a
danger in that.
If you are just beginning on this path, a good idea might be to choose
one
thing and do it. But don't become so attached to the process or the
source
of the process you choose that it becomes more important than the
result
that you are after. And if you are not getting
the result you want, or others want for you what you don't necessarily
want
for yourself, be prepared at all times to simply say good bye and move
on
to the next thing.
One of the advantages of running TROM is that you can do it without
having
to involve yourself with the pressures of an enforced reality
structure
which exists, by nature, in any organized religion. If you feel that
you
can hold your own position in the universe, and
you have unlimited funds, the Scn route might be just the thing for
you.
The disadvantage to running TROM as a non native english speaker is
that
you will not have anyone who is there to coach you when you have
questions
like "What does it mean create something"
By the time you get your answer in a form that you can understand, it
might
be next week. That is very slow processing.
Another question you might ask is, "Is there a translation in my
native
tongue?" I don't know that answer.
There are other processes available on the internet which might be
more
appropriate for you and other groups who share their tech. If you
found
TROM, I'm sure you can find these others.
If you are strongly attracted to TROM, then first you might read
forward
and find out if there are going to be a lot of questions that come up
about
meanings. If there are just a couple, then it may be very easy for you
to
do. If there are many, I doubt if you will find
it very useful or effective to pursue this because of the communication
lag
time.
Doing two different but related processes at the same time might not
be
very valuable for you because you may not know what is working in
your
favor and what is working against you as the results sometimes take
awhile
to manifest or stabilize.
I do wish you the best in you endeavors.
Sincerely,
Jonathan
Subject:
Re: Rowland
Barkley answer to Nori Avidan "Request for help and
information"
Date:
Thu, 30 Apr
1998 15:53:06 +0200
From:
Snowdragon
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
References:
1
Dear Nori,
"Create something" is appealing to a person's creative
abilities. It is
called creative processing. So you can answer the question by
creating
ideas in your mind and/or using your imagination. It can be an
excellent
drill to increase your imaginative abilities. "Have another
create
something" means that you imagine somebody else being imaginative.
So it
is a game of using fantasy and imagination and/or allowing fantasy
and
imagination to be present.
Lars Peter Schultz
Nori Avidan wrote:
>
> ----------
> >> 1. What EXACTLY means "Create something"
& "Have another create
> >>something" ? Please give some examples.
> >> 2. May I safely run TROM even if I'm write now
engaged in traditional
> >>Scientology processing like Purification Rundown, TRs &
Objectives and ARC
> >>Straightwire ?
>
> >Dear Nori
>
> > As Max has given an
excellent answer to your question 3, I'll
answer 2 and 1.
>
> > 2) Traditionally, someone who starts the word
"scientology" with a capital
> >"S" is not permitted to even read about TROM, nor are
they allowed to ask
> >what things mean as in question 1.
> >1) Refer to the old OT VII pack, or mockup processes of
1953.
>
> Dear Rowland,
>
> 1. As a "Searcher" , I reserve myself the
right to be openminded and
realy search for the best way to get me across.
> 2. Even though I wrote "scientology" with a
capital "S" (English is not
my mother tongue) it doesn't mean I have any attitude for/against it (I'm
a
searcher remember ?). Anyway, I still don't have an answer regarding
my
question (I didn't get to any OT levels yet).
>
> Nori
Subject:
E-meter usage techniques
Date:
Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:33:54
-0500 (EST)
From:
Roy Eugene Vinner
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Hello everyone,
I've been on the list for a while, and I wish to touch the issue of
e-meter usage for running TROM, which as far as I could recall has
not
been discussed frequently. Dennis only mentioned the possibility of
meter
use, which he had apparently utilised himself, and let the reader
interpret the way it could be utilised. I have got a Scientology
backround
so I wish to rely on the infallible guide (the meter) on lower
levels.
I presume that many do rely on meter readings in tromming on levels
1-3
and above (?). I wonder whether anyone could summarise the meter
usage
techniques for tromming, and/or point out to the difference(s)
between
meter usage for tromming and doing solo auditing. Secondly, while
using
the meter, is tone arm useful at all?
I thank the one who would clarify the issue on the list.
Roy
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l,
previous-life-scio and IVy lists
***************
Replies, comments, to the list, send to [email protected]
***************
--
Antony A Phillips [email protected]
_______________________________________________
TROM mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
