************* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org ************
Robin,
The guiding principle amongst all human interactions is the universal maxim: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you and, do not do unto others that which you would not have them do unto you. All law is based on that principle. The law was made to deal with those who breached that principle, and to mete out justice accordingly. David Ps. I am still totally confused about what you wrote me to explain L5. Maybe you want to try and explain it again..... Thanks. On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 2:39 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org > ************ > Hi Pete, > > thanks for your question. > > First of all, Dennis' version of AXIOM 31 is in fact more specific. > > Now, consider what does "more specific" say. It introduces kind > of comparison. In doing that it introduces a limitation. > > When Dennis' AX31 is more specific than Ron's AX31 then it is > more limited or in terms of logic AX31-D is a subgroup of > AX31-R. > > Do we have a consent up to this point? > > Certainly life on planet earth in a human body with an emotional > scale limited to the small bandwidth of 0 to 4, with Dynamics > limited to only 1 to 8; dimensions limited to 3D+Time; not to speak > of various other physical restrictions imposed on the organism's > beingness through its MEST body. E.g. temperature, impact of forces, > energy-household, ... > > The above establishes the reality of life for a majority of people. > > If you like you can make a little experiment: Go out in the streets, > tell people about Ron's AX31. Boy, you better get ready experiencing > what it means to ARC break people around. > > I guess you have enough imaginative power to see my point here, even > without actually doing that experiment. > > The same done with Dennis' "downgraded" AX31 will still cause significant > lack of understanding in your fellow man. But many will agree that > beauty and aesthetic are a matter of opinion (they will rather call it > taste which is the same in that context). > > If your game is not to go out of ARC with common people you will > rather stick with AX31-D when dealing with the average men. > > For completeness sake let's for a moment dwell with the concept of > "more specific" or "restricted": > > Now, every time you're specific or restricted in your views it is due > to your attitudes, believes or even complete systems of believe. > In other words, your very personal universe. > > Certainly Dennis had his specific believes, preferences and views. This > inevitably must bleed through in the works, communications and deeds > of a person. And this bleed-through is strongest when he talks of > "The Philosophy of TROM". Of course it is. It is a deeply rooted > personal issue. > > If someone (was it Ant Phillips?) had not asked > Dennis to make that tape we, most likely, would not even have this > nice little chat here about AX31. > > And here comes the good news: > TROM, as a body of technology, would not be any different. The > level structure, commands, procedure as described in the "Therapy Manual" > would be exactly the same, no matter if that tape were delivered or not. > > Never the less the mind-set of you as a PC and you as an Auditor > in terms of what you can achieve with and expect from a clearing > technology, a religious philosophy, a religion or life's value > in terms of learning experience and attainment of higher levels > of consciousness, certainly depends on your attitudes and believes. > My feeling is, that you may progress with more ease the more willing > you are to adopt the wider view, the less restricted view. > While doing clearing you inevitably change to more liberal and > more "spacious" value systems anyway. > > > One of the reasons why people can easily get very angry when > you dare to confront them with Ron's AX31 or the subjects of > rightness/wrongness, ethic/out-ethic, good/bad, ... is that > they can not even clearly define what those words mean. (E.g. > very common is the mixing up and falsely synonymous use of ethics > and moral.) > > The above is a minor problem. A bit of education and word-clearing > resolves that. The other much more serious issue is that everything > that has to do with the subject of good/bad in the wider sense is - > as can easily be observed - heavily loaded and highly restimulative. > Of course it is, none is innocent. As an auditor (sometimes even in > daily life) you're dealing with the power of overt-motivator sequences > and even worse with all kind of service facsimiles. > > The idea of Ron's unrestricted view on AX31 can probably be > understood better if one tries to take a closer look on Ron's > aspiration. Especially the high end of the bridge. Those OT levels > which should set a being free of humanly restrictions, make him > god-like again. > > Do you think a god does care about AX31? About good/bad? > He takes on any beingness he wants. If he wants to be a devil > he is. He makes the games and the rules thereof. > He destroys in order to create anew. Nothing wrong with that > in his view (in his home universe at least). > > Particularly when one tries to tackle with his own case, his own > mind, his own level of responsibility, ability, ... > it is beneficial that you acknowledge your own evil deeds first, > forgive yourself, stop regretting anything, stop holding yourself > back (what makes you hold yourself back is _never_ what others > did to you, the only power that can restrict yourself is you. > Would it be otherwise it would pose a rather paradox situation > at the level of Native State. > > Again, the above may not be of much relevance with TROM (I can > not say anything from own experience beyond Level 3 currently). > TROM may be more forgiving than other clearing technology. > However, as can be seen, TROM works very well with some individuals > while others seem to have troubles with it. That's why I'm talking > here for other methods mainly. > > This is only what I've found out for myself. I'm not the kind of person > who wants to convert anyone or push my views down their throats. > But for me the process of self improvement accelerated significantly > as soon as I took a wider look on things, a more liberal view > on life on earth and last but not least at AX31. Interestingly enough, > it did not at all make me an unethical being. > > What I've seen so far (in relatives and strangers alike) > is that many problems are held in suspension and seemingly do not > want to resolve in some cases because those beings hold on so > firm to their believe in their own innocence and irresponsibility > that they are seemingly resistive against any therapy. > They jump from therapy to therapy, method to method, try and > error - nothing changes case-wise. Often they have unrealistic > expectations and high hopes paired with an unwilliness to > appreciate the small gains they make. They abandon a method > too early. Kind of Q&A it is. > > Of course they can be cracked somehow. But it's arduous work. > They stand in their own way solid as a rock. It's fascinating. > They desperately cling to a viewpoint that "explains logically" > that all their troubles in life, be it mentally, bodily, sexually, > economically, ... have one single reason. Usually a specific person > in their past. > > Since their theories had been many, many years in the making they > develop a kind of selective perception. That means they unknowingly > accept only data which fits - and even better, confirms - their > viewpoint. Any other data which does not fulfill that criterion or > opposes their view is ignored stubbornly or even condemned. > Occasionally the source terminals are criticized without reasoning. > > That's why I advise that one who wears the hat of an auditor never, never > accepts - or even worse - agrees with a PCs limited view regarding AX31. > You never sympathize with a PC in that regard. Because if you do, what > you acknowledge is not the being but rather his reactive bank. > > It's nice to show sympathy for your fellow humans in daily life of course. > Certainly makes life much easier for us all. Feel free to be tolerant with > AX31 to your hearts content. > > But if you love your PC or your student you better use AX31 according to > its > original version. > > I hope I made my attitude clear now. > > > Best regards > Robin > > > > > On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 14:00:04 +0200, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> wrote: > > Send TROM mailing list submissions to >> trom@lists.newciv.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. The absurdity of false positives - Re: TROM Digest, Vol 144, >> Issue 24 (The Resolution of Mind list) >> 2. Re: The absurdity of false positives - Re: TROM Digest, Vol >> 144, Issue 24 (The Resolution of Mind list) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 06:51:30 +0200 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >> Subject: [TROM1] The absurdity of false positives - Re: TROM Digest, >> Vol 144, Issue 24 >> Message-ID: <mailman.14849.1477544112.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; >> delsp=yes >> >> Hi Pete and David, >> >> a discussion of good and bad is always interesting and >> of some entertainment value. >> IMO beyond that it is more or less fruitless in terms of >> therapy and teaching. >> >> Reasoning: A therapist/teacher must step out of the agreed >> upon 'earthly' frames of reference in order to do a decent >> job. >> >> I agree that there is no room for opinions and thus convincing >> in the above matters. >> >> I disagree that the above establishes room for apathy when >> "convincing-failure" occurs. >> >> In regard of 'earthly' matters and/or every-day life issues >> the handling of the subjects good/bad positive/negative may >> be different for practical reasons. >> >> The whole discussion resolves with Scientology AXIOM 31: >> >> [AXIOM 31. GOODNESS AND BADNESS, BEAUTIFULNESS AND UGLINESS, ARE >> ALIKE CONSIDERATIONS AND HAVE NO OTHER BASIS THAN OPINION.) >> >> Well, you certainly know that Dennis Stevens states in "The Philosophy >> of TROM" that he disagrees with the first part (goodness/badness) >> of AXIOM 31. >> >> For the reasons I gave above I personally tend to Hubbard's version >> in the fields of auditing, research and study. >> >> For dealing with humans in daily daily life I prefer Dennis' version. >> >> >> Best regards >> >> Robin >> >> >> >> ------- >> >> >> On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 23:34:28 +0200, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> >> wrote: >> >> Send TROM mailing list submissions to >>> trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: The absurdity of false positives (The Resolution of Mind list) >>> 2. Re: The absurdity of false positives (The Resolution of Mind list) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 10:47:52 -0700 >>> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >>> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] The absurdity of false positives >>> Message-ID: <mailman.14488.1477504278.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Hi David >>> I agree with your point but how do you convince the compulsive games >>> player that this is true? >>> The compulsive games player is playing a life or death game. He knows >>> that the end justifies the means and sportsmanlike behavior is for >>> pussies. >>> >>> How do you convince him to change his ways? >>> >>> >>> Sincerely >>> Pete McLaughlin >>> >>> > >> Message: 2 >> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 23:01:50 -0700 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >> Subject: Re: [TROM1] The absurdity of false positives - Re: TROM >> Digest, Vol 144, Issue 24 >> Message-ID: <mailman.14866.1477548327.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Robin >> You said: >> >> "For the reasons I gave above I personally tend to Hubbard's version >> in the fields of auditing, research and study. >> >> For dealing with humans in daily daily life I prefer Dennis' version." >> >> I find Dennis' version is specifically >> EVIL is forcing on others what they do not want or taking from others >> what they do not want to give up. >> I think that this definition would apply in life and auditing. >> Can you give me an example where it would not apply? >> >> Sincerely >> Pete Mclaughlin >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Oct 26, 2016, at 9:51 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < >>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>> >>> For the reasons I gave above I personally tend to Hubbard's version >>> in the fields of auditing, research and study. >>> >>> For dealing with humans in daily daily life I prefer Dennis' version. >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TROM mailing list >> TROM@lists.newciv.org >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >> >> >> End of TROM Digest, Vol 144, Issue 25 >> ************************************* >> > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > TROM@lists.newciv.org > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >
_______________________________________________ TROM mailing list TROM@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
