Re: [TROM1] TROM Digest, Vol 147, Issue 15

Mon, 23 Jan 2017 07:22:39 -0800 

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Hi Pete,

indeed this is a very interesting subject. I enjoy this discussion.

I agree with Scientology and TROM that this universe consists of
life and postulates only.

Finding the original postulate ...? In our current state this seems
unreal to me. I mean it is one thing to discontinue smoking, and
something else to make the universe disappear. I can even agree that
the principles and mechanisms behind are the same. "Only" the gradient
is different. Or in other words the degree of complexity differs.

I've already mentioned that aspect in my first post when I was saying:

Through the eons we came down we had put much attention and cleverness
into the activity of building enormously complex postulate structures
with tons of lies, false ownerships (valences, co-creation),
complicated mechanisms of forgettingness, blackness, dub-ins,
automaticities, machinery of all kinds, aso.


Actually you say the same when you point out quite right that:
I would assume he had a number of postulates which included stuttering as a solution to life's difficulties and there was more work to do. 

Yes, the complexities can be broken down into smaller parts and
then handled bit by bit. I do not know what his computations in regard
of "to stutter" had been. The PC did not continue with his auditing and
training for reasons unknown to me.

Often one has to ask for reasons which lie under a certain ailment
or inability. E.g. if someone is addicted to a drug it is not always
sufficient to go for the decision to take a particular drug. If the
reason why he did take drugs is not resolved he is liable to take
this drug or another one again. Loosing weight is something similar.
Why does someone want to get slender? Because he/she thinks he/she
is fat. In order to loose weight you have to have overweight at first.

The above example is a simple one but it can already be seen that
postulates about which the person is unconscious are involved here.

Particularly those postulates, of which the PC has no awareness or those
which are his own but he stubbornly denies to take responsibility for,
are a big problem. In my view this is the major roadblock with all kind
of DIY processing.

According to Ron Hubbard self auditing does not work.
[SELF AUDITING, 1. the manifestation of going around running concepts or
processes on one’s self . One is doing this because he has been made afraid, 
through his failure on others, of his ability to control his own engrams,
facsimiles, thoughts and concepts, and he seeks to control them through
auditing. (Dn 55!, p. 121) 2 . solo auditing occurs in session with a meter. 
Self-auditing is out-of-session wondering and chewing on bank. (HCOB 10
Apr 72) 3 . the manifestation of being overwhelmed by masses etc., and pulling only think out of the bank. Pulling out think then pulls in more force which gives 
more self-audit. (HCOB 19 Jun 70 II) 4. self-auditing is done ordinarily
out of valence and results in the preclear expending counter-efforts against 
himself. Thus he succeeds only in hurting himself. (AP&A, p. 31)]

This is of course hard to swallow.

Further LRH tells us:
The analytical minds of PC plus Auditor are stronger than the PC's reactive bank. 

(You will see toward the end of this post that LRH qualifies himself
 a bit.)

The opponents of the above statement say: ok, that's only part of the
church's business model. All truth is inside a man. Everyone must
find his own way out of the mire.

I'm not interested in being party in this kind of battle.
In my opinion, both views are partially right.

I've the impression that those people who have had standard Scientology
auditing (and preferably training) at least including TRs, CCHs, ARC-strightwire, 
some NED, Grades 1-4 have a very good chance to further improve case-wise
on their own.
Some of the others may be in good enough shape to make progress on their own. 
But the majority seems to have a very hard time. And they have the highest
demand and the highest expectations as well.

In this world there is no lunch for free. So one either takes some
money in his hand or he spends time liberally.

(The above is only a statement of the situation - perhaps incomplete
or inaccurate. We could launch some kind of survey on that list to get
a better feeling for how people are doing statistically.)
The approaches including an external auditor normally include a PC assessment sheet, interviews, 2-way-comm., word clearing, rudiments, if necessary handling 
of physical ailments with assists or other repair and preparatory actions.
What one wants is a case estimation and to find out what to audit.
A auditor very skilled in 2-way-comm. allegedly - (and I say allegedly
because I'm not that kind of auditor and this is only from hear-say, but
never the less very real to me) can solely by 2-way-comm resolve any
case.

However that may be, none of this does apply to self-clearing.
Therefore the question arises: How can someone who distrusts C.o.S.
or is in a dire economical situation (the latter often applies to those
who are in a severe case state) be ramped up to a point where he can
make it on his own with any of the available self-clearing technologies?

To your question, Pete, regarding my experience:

Firstly I think that people are basically interested in regaining
their self-determinism. Additional nice to haves are of course:
money, power, sex, OT-abilities, leaving this universe behind, ...
oh yes, 20 pounds less ... but why? with an astral-body ;-)

There are at least two Scientology self-processing books by LRH of which
I'm aware of and which I would recommend without reservation for those
who seek a lower entry gradient. This is the well known "Selfanalysis"
book. And the other one which never had much promotion as far as I've
seen is: "Handbook For Preclears".
(Both books can be found here:
http://liferepairspecialist.com/ScientologyMaterials/index.php?dir=Books%2F#)

The latter one was of great help for me in at least two occasions.
Once in a time of a deep personal crisis and at an other occasion
when I audited some of the chapters on a girl who was strictly anti-
Scientology. Never the less I could persuade her into a session of
about two hours. She had no particular problem which she wanted to
be handled. And she was not overly enthusiastic afterwards. (GIs)
A coupe of days later I met her again and she told me, w/o being asked,
how good she felt recently; without making any connexion to the session.
Finally she said: "I really do not know why I feel so good, nothing
special did happen." Had to acknowledge here and smiled inwardly.

A completely alternative road to inner peace, freedom, enlightenment
and may be Nirvana (Note: I do not mean to be ironic here) is that
which David once had depicted in a post. It is a very spiritual/religious
approach which amounts up to a life which is devoted exclusively to love
and service to others and denial of selfishness of any form.
Well, I'm sure that this is a possibility which does neither require
to be rich nor any other preliminaries. It is even better to be poor
and have a hard time when someone wants to take that road.

I can not advertise the latter approach since I myself am not up to
such a sacrifice. Never the less I believe that this is a possibility
and the study of material which pertains to that way of living is
worth to be considered.

That's it for the moment.


Best

Robin




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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 22:47:44 -0800
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subjet: Re: [TROM1] TROM Digest, Vol 147, Issue 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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 Hi Robin
Ok, we are getting to the meat of the issue.
Are Scientology and TROM correct that this universe consists of only life and postulates. If so then finding and as-ising the original postulate would instantly change anything.
Why was your PC still stuttering? I would assume he had a number of postulates which included stuttering as a solution to life's difficulties and there was more work to do.
I am most interested in the answer as i am trying to become proficient at making changes in my life and helping other do so.
In your experience with auditing have you found that there is some other work necessary to make life changes. I.e. If someone wants to give up smoking or loose 20 pounds or some such what is the most effective way or ways to go about it? 

Sincerely
Pete Mclaughlin

Sent from my iPad
On Jan 22, 2017, at 10:21 PM, The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> wrote: 

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Hi Pete,

ok, it seems I get your viewpoint. We have said more or less something
similar. What I call "different approach" you see as the "three possible
methods".

My understanding of a postulate apparently differs in so far from yours
as I see a postulate as something separated from the effect which the
postulate creates. In our example this would be: Postulate = "to smoke".
The effect(s) are: I light a cigarette, produce smoke, get a sore throat, 
my wife complains about the bad smell, it makes me calm, ...
In short we could sum up the effects into "smokingness" ;-).


create: make, manufacture, construct, postulate, bring into beingness.


As far as I understand you, you associate very strong the postulating
with the effect. This seems to suggest itself; it seems practical because 
the effect is so immediate when a postulate is made.

It's great when it works so well for you. I sincerely wish it would work
as well for anyone else.
I once audited someone on NED who stuttered. This PC regarded his stuttering 
as a severe problem which he wanted to have resolved. We went back along
a chain of incidents and found a postulate. PC finally had F/N, VGI's, cognition. 
The PC thanked me, the examiner was happy, case supervisor was happy,
Only I was slightly not so happy. The PC still stuttered.

And why can David not make your proposed method work for him?

Muriel Chen herself does not utter the word "postulate" a single time.
The book itself is excellent. Read it at first a couple years ago.
Reread it recently because you introduced it here. It's what it claims
to be - a first aid book. But beyond that?

Best regards

Robin


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  1. Postulate (e.g.. to stop smoking) - Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147,
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  2. Re: Postulate (e.g.. to stop smoking) - Re: TROM Digest,    Vol
     147, Issue 12 (The Resolution of Mind list)


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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 16:09:43 +0100
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TROM1] Postulate (e.g.. to stop smoking) - Re: TROM Digest,
   Vol 147, Issue 12
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Hi Pete,

when you stopped smoking, was it essential for you to go back
to the moment where you decided to start smoking?

Different approaches to this kind of problems are possible
and whatever helped you to get rid of an unwanted habit is fine.
In that respect there is no right or wrong way.

You could have made as well a new postulate in PT which overrules
the old one. People often do that when a new year starts. They say:
"From now on I quit smoking." It does not work for all because
they can  not make this postulate "stick". But often enough it does.

The example is on a relative low gradient. You have been most likely
well aware when you smoked your first cigarette, no trauma involved.

But the real severe aberrations are not so easily handled. You have
to dig out the postulate(s) first.

Dennis on L5 does not care about specific postulates. He uses a kind
of abstraction. He lets you put up the most general package's (to know)
postulates on both sides and then you see what pops up. You do not
timebreake the postulate but the incidents, persons, feelings and so on. 

The point is, that a postulate does not belong to the same category
as e.g. a mass, a charge, facsimiles, aso.

A PC who does not make a differentiation between those things might
think that he must "run" a postulate in order to "erase" it.
Certainly we can let him find out the hard way. But is it not
better to get a good grasp on the terms we use?


Regards

Robin


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     (The Resolution of Mind list)
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     (The Resolution of Mind list)
  3. Re: Fwd: Vorb's Trom Diary at 250 hours: The raging yawn -
     (The Resolution of Mind list)


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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 09:55:07 +0100
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TROM1] Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147)
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<snip>
I have been doing that on different issues for years, and I can't say 
I have had  success.




David


<snip>


David, Pete, anyone concerned,

most of the misunderstandings and questions about postulates do easily
resolve when you just look thoroughly at a couple of definitions.
Below you find the most important ones regarding the subject of
postulates, already brought into meaningful sequence:
[POSTULATE, n. 1. a self-created truth would be simply the consideration generated by self. Well, we just borrow the word which is in seldom use 
in
the
English language, we call that postulate. And we mean by postulate,
selfcreated
truth. He posts something. He puts something up and that?s what a
postulate is. (HPC A6-4, 5608C--) 2. a postulate is, of course, that
thing
which is a directed desire or order, or inhibition, or enforcement, on
the
part
of the individual in the form of an idea. (2ACC 23A, 5312CM14) 3 . that self determined thought which starts, stops or changes past, present or 
future
efforts.
(APIA, p. 33) 4 . is actually a prediction. (5112CM30B)?v. 1 . in Scn the 
word
postulate means to cause a thinkingness or consideration. It is a
specially
applied word and is defined as causative thinkingness. (FOT, p. 71) 2 . 
to
conclude, decide or resolve a problem or to set a pattern for the future 
or to
nullify a pattern of the past. (HFP, p. 155) 3 . to generate or ?think? a concept. A postulate infers conditions and actions rather than just plain 
thinks. It has a dynamic connotation. (SH Spec 84, 6612C13)]


There are a couple of flavors of postulates:
[OPPOSITE POSTULATE, an individual who has made a postulate on a subject 
experiences "failure" when he has to make an opposite postulate later.
The
opposite postulate has the effect of a negative postulate. The opposite postulate is distinguished from a negative postulate because it depends 
upon
effort which a negative postulate does not necessarily have to do. (AP&A, 
P.
34)]
(The above may be of special interest for those people who are concerned 
with TROM.)
[NEGATIVE POSTULATE, the postulate not to be. It cancels past postulates and it also cancels, in greater or lesser degree, the entire individual. 
(AP&A,
p. 34)]
[PAST POSTULATES, decisions or conclusions the preclear has made in the 
past
and to which he is still subjected in the present. Past postulates are
uniformly
invalid since they cannot resolve present environment. (NFP Gloss)]


This is not a definition per se, but an applicable notion:

"The universe consists of life and postulates" - DHS

Now, we are legitimate to substitute "life" with "theta".
They are not precisely synonymous but never the less we can get
some sense out of: "The Universe consists of Theta and postulates."

Actually it answers a question, you David, recently posed.
It was the question regarding what a Thetan can do, what his
abilities are.

The list of a Thetan's abilities is rather short. It contains
one item only:

                 A Thetan postulates

Well, does not look too impressive. But look again. This single
item covers it all.

Now see the Scale Of Reality:
[SCALE OF REALITY, 1. the reality scale refers to the individual?s hold 
on
reality and his agreement with others on what reality is. (NOTL, p. 103) 
2
. at
the bottom there is nothing, above that there is a communication line,
the
line
becomes more solid, then above that terminals begin to materialize
lightly
and
the line becomes less solid, then above that you have the terminals and 
you
don?t have any lines, and above that the terminals are there mostly by
agreement, above that there is agreement, and above agreement there is
consideration, individual consideration, and above that there is
postulate.
That is the Scale of Reality. (PAB 154)]


Actually you better look at the scale upside-down.
I give it again below.

At the scales top you come close to "static". The lower you go
along the scale the more solid it gets.

You see we start from:

Postulate,
Individual Consideration,
Consideration,
Agreement,
Terminals, ... the different flavors (solidities) of Communication ...

As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that
it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to
suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could
then as-is a Thetan. A funny idea. Please do not worry, no Thetan is
in danger to be annihilated by another Thetan, or in the course of
processing through as-ising. That would make an interesting paradox.
Simply because no one who would have regained such an ability would
ever care about any Thetan or processing at all.

As well a postulate will not produce any read on a meter. Except
this one here: "This meter's needle is going to move!"
Those PC's who are already in good shape would rather move the
whole universe around the needle's pivot point instead ;-)

What makes the meter read is the effects which our postulates
create. In other words the postulate's manifestations in terms of
particles, movement, energies, masses (condensed energy), feelings,
emotions, images, charges, screens, symbols, ... you name it.

One can place a postulate into a solid - e.g. a wall. You may
or may not be able to "as-is" that wall. The postulate still remains.

Any postulate - consideration - thought (in that sequence) ever
brought forth by theta always was and always will be.
(Quiz-question: Which often used Bible-quotes says the same
in other words?)

Why is it then, that we are that much concerned with postulates in
any clearing technique which deserves to be called such?

What we have a problem with, is not the postulates itself but rather
that we can not make our postulates 'stick' - at least not in a
predictable and desirable manner.

Through the eons we came down we had put much attention and cleverness
into the activity of building enormously complex postulate structures
with tons of lies, false ownerships (valences, co-creation),
complicated mechanisms of forgettingness, blackness, dub-ins,
automaticities, machinery of all kinds, aso.

The sole purpose of processing is to reestablish some order in that
chaos. In order to entangle the postulate structures you have to
go about it in a logical manner. You put aside a lot of rubbish first
until you can see through the complex fabric.

Why do we not just postulate ourself into a perfectly unaberated,
healthy,
able state? Presumably because we did not want it that way. Would be too 
easy. No fun in the game. It would constitute the same paradox
which was already mentioned further above in this text.

Therefore it does you no good if you use effort or be inpatient or
operate on false assumptions right form the beginning. False expectations 
(e.g. Hidden Standards) will rather slow you down. Effort will only
add to the solidity of ones reactive mind.

[CLEARING, 1 . a gradient process of finding places where attention is
fixed and
restoring the ability of the pc to place and remove attention under his 
own
determinism. (HCOB 28 Feb 59) 2 . what is clearing but regaining
awareness
that one is himself, and regaining confidence. (HCOB 1 Feb 58)]

(Emphasis on "gradient" in def.1)

Confidence in what?

In the only thing a Thetan can do :-)


Robin


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 03:56:40 -0800
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

Robin
You said "As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that 
it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to
suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could
then as-is a Thetan. "
What is the problem with as-using a postulate? If i made a postulate to 
smoke cigarettes in the past and want to stop smoking now then the
correct way to do it is to examine, duplicate the original postulate and 
as-is it at which point i will no longer smoke cigarettes.  Isn't this
the way it works?

Sincerely
Pete Mclaughlin

Sent from my iPad


On Jan 22, 2017, at 12:55 AM, The Resolution of Mind list
<[email protected]> wrote:

As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that
it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to
suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could
then as-is a Thetan.




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:18:04 -0500
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Fwd: Vorb's Trom Diary at 250 hours: The raging
   yawn -
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Pete,

I do not know.

I have never smoked or did any drugs except for experimentation, and
found
it repulsive or depressing.

Never had an addiction to alcohol either, actually do not like the
effects
of alcohol.

David



On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 2:01 AM, The Resolution of Mind list <
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Hi David
How do you change a postulate after you have made it?
For instance if you decided to start smoking as a kid how would you go 
about changing your mind and not smoking from now on?

Sincerely
Pete McLaughlin

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 17, 2017, at 4:51 PM, The Resolution of Mind list <
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Thanks  for your reply, Pete.
I have been doing that on different issues for years, and I can't say I 
have had  success.




David

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 6:35 PM, The Resolution of Mind list <
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Hi David

Yes is am applying axiom 16.  Any time i have an ache, pain or
mis-emotion i focus my attention on it and duplicate it, view it, see 
it as
clearly as possible.
If it is a sore thumb i look at the sensations and try to visualize the 
exact tissues in the thumb that are producing the pain sensation. I
look
for any incident in the past that is involved but usually there is
none so
i just focus on the painful sensation to make it as intense and the
source
of the pain as clear as possible.
Then I continue to focus on this sensation, pain , mis emotion whatever 
and it will soon fade away.

Then i carry on with what task i was doing.

Muriel Chen's book is all about applying this method to a number of
situations.

Sincerely
Pete McLaughlin


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 15, 2017, at 5:14 PM, The Resolution of Mind list <
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Hi Pete,


Thank you for posting that.


Have you been able to make that axiom work?


If so how?


And what were the results?






David

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, The Resolution of Mind list <
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Hi David
The book "The Creation of Human Ability" contains a list of self
evident truths derived from the "Logics and Axioms".

Item 16 is
16. COMPLETE DESTRUCTION IS ACCOMPLISHED BY THE POSTULATION OF THE AS- 
IS- NESS OF ANY EXISTENCE AND THE PARTS THEREOF.


So Hubbard did present a method to un-mock a postulate.

The book is downloadable as a pdf here:

http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Books/195
4%20CREATION%20OF%20HUMAN%20ABILITY.pdf

Sincerely

Pete McLaughlin




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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 10:32:59 -0800
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Postulate (e.g.. to stop smoking) - Re: TROM
   Digest,    Vol 147, Issue 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Robin
As you and Dennis and Hubbard say life consists of thetans and postulates. So why complicate changing my postulate "to smoke" with "different approaches"?
From the Fundamentals of Thought (below) you see that the cycle of action is: 
Create
Create-create-create
Counter create
And from the Scientology Glossary the definition of As-is gives us three ways to stop smoking
Once i created the postulate to smoke i can stop smoking by As-ising the postulate to smoke Or i can postulate to not smoke which is a counter creation to the original postulate
Or i can simply fail to continue smoking which is a no-create on the postulate. This could happen if i decided to smoke but a blight wiped out the tobacco plants so there where no more cigarettes.
These are the only course of action possible to stop smoking. In fact i counter created by postulating that smoking was causing me to have soar throats so i HAD to stop or i would continue to have soar throats.
So you see that changing my mind about anything i postulated in the past can be accomplished by these three methods. 

Sincerely
Pete McLaughlin


Scientology Glossary
as-is: to view anything exactly as it is, without any distortions or lies, at which moment it vanishes and ceases to exist. See also as-isness.
as-isness: the condition of immediate creation without persistence, and is the condition of existence which exists at the moment of creation and the moment of destruction, and is different from other considerations in that it does not contain survival. 



create: make, manufacture, construct, postulate, bring into beingness.
create-counter-create: to create something against a creation; to create one thing and then create something else against it, bringing about the destruction of the first creation.
create-create-create: create again continuously one moment after the next. This is survival. See also create.
start-change-stop: the cycle of action in this universe, which is also the anatomy of control. Almost the entire subject of control is summed up in the ability to start, change and stop one?s activities, body and one?s environment. See also cycle of action. 



Fundamentals of Thought
THE ACTUAL CYCLE OF ACTION THE ACTUAL CYCLE OF ACTION is as follows: CREATE, create-create-create, create-counter-create, no creation, nothingness. CREATE = make, manufacture, construct, postulate, bring into beingness = CREATE. Create-create-create = create again continuously one moment after the next = SURVIV AL. Create-counter-create = to create something against a creation = to create one thing and then create something else against it = DESTROY. No creation = an absence of any creation = no creative activity. AN ACTUAL cycle of action then consists of various activities but each and every one of them is creative. The cycle of action contains an APPARENCY of SURVIVAL but this is actually only a continuous creation. The APPARENT cycle of action contains DESTRUCTION but the ACTUAL cycle of action tells us what destruction is. DESTRUCTION is one of TWO activities. 


Sent from my iPad
On Jan 22, 2017, at 7:09 AM, The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> wrote: 

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Hi Pete,

when you stopped smoking, was it essential for you to go back
to the moment where you decided to start smoking?

Different approaches to this kind of problems are possible
and whatever helped you to get rid of an unwanted habit is fine.
In that respect there is no right or wrong way.

You could have made as well a new postulate in PT which overrules
the old one. People often do that when a new year starts. They say:
"From now on I quit smoking." It does not work for all because
they can  not make this postulate "stick". But often enough it does.

The example is on a relative low gradient. You have been most likely
well aware when you smoked your first cigarette, no trauma involved.

But the real severe aberrations are not so easily handled. You have
to dig out the postulate(s) first.

Dennis on L5 does not care about specific postulates. He uses a kind
of abstraction. He lets you put up the most general package's (to know) 
postulates on both sides and then you see what pops up. You do not
timebreake the postulate but the incidents, persons, feelings and so on. 

The point is, that a postulate does not belong to the same category
as e.g. a mass, a charge, facsimiles, aso.

A PC who does not make a differentiation between those things might
think that he must "run" a postulate in order to "erase" it.
Certainly we can let him find out the hard way. But is it not
better to get a good grasp on the terms we use?


Regards

Robin


----
On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 13:00:02 +0100, <[email protected]> wrote: 

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Today's Topics:

 1. Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147)
    (The Resolution of Mind list)
 2. Re: Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147)
    (The Resolution of Mind list)
 3. Re: Fwd: Vorb's Trom Diary at 250 hours: The raging yawn -
    (The Resolution of Mind list)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 09:55:07 +0100
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TROM1] Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes

<snip>
I have been doing that on different issues for years, and I can't say 
I have had  success.




David


<snip>


David, Pete, anyone concerned,
most of the misunderstandings and questions about postulates do easily 
resolve when you just look thoroughly at a couple of definitions.
Below you find the most important ones regarding the subject of
postulates, already brought into meaningful sequence:
[POSTULATE, n. 1. a self-created truth would be simply the consideration generated by self. Well, we just borrow the word which is in seldom use in 
the
English language, we call that postulate. And we mean by postulate,
selfcreated
truth. He posts something. He puts something up and that?s what a
postulate is. (HPC A6-4, 5608C--) 2. a postulate is, of course, that thing which is a directed desire or order, or inhibition, or enforcement, on the 
part
of the individual in the form of an idea. (2ACC 23A, 5312CM14) 3 . that self determined thought which starts, stops or changes past, present or 
future
efforts.
(APIA, p. 33) 4 . is actually a prediction. (5112CM30B)?v. 1 . in Scn the 
word
postulate means to cause a thinkingness or consideration. It is a specially applied word and is defined as causative thinkingness. (FOT, p. 71) 2 . to conclude, decide or resolve a problem or to set a pattern for the future 
or to
nullify a pattern of the past. (HFP, p. 155) 3 . to generate or ?think? a concept. A postulate infers conditions and actions rather than just plain 
thinks. It has a dynamic connotation. (SH Spec 84, 6612C13)]


There are a couple of flavors of postulates:
[OPPOSITE POSTULATE, an individual who has made a postulate on a subject experiences "failure" when he has to make an opposite postulate later. The opposite postulate has the effect of a negative postulate. The opposite postulate is distinguished from a negative postulate because it depends 
upon
effort which a negative postulate does not necessarily have to do. (AP&A, 
P.
34)]
(The above may be of special interest for those people who are concerned 
with TROM.)
[NEGATIVE POSTULATE, the postulate not to be. It cancels past postulates and it also cancels, in greater or lesser degree, the entire individual. 
(AP&A,
p. 34)]
[PAST POSTULATES, decisions or conclusions the preclear has made in the 
past
and to which he is still subjected in the present. Past postulates are 
uniformly
invalid since they cannot resolve present environment. (NFP Gloss)]


This is not a definition per se, but an applicable notion:

"The universe consists of life and postulates" - DHS

Now, we are legitimate to substitute "life" with "theta".
They are not precisely synonymous but never the less we can get
some sense out of: "The Universe consists of Theta and postulates."

Actually it answers a question, you David, recently posed.
It was the question regarding what a Thetan can do, what his
abilities are.

The list of a Thetan's abilities is rather short. It contains
one item only:

                A Thetan postulates

Well, does not look too impressive. But look again. This single
item covers it all.

Now see the Scale Of Reality:
[SCALE OF REALITY, 1. the reality scale refers to the individual?s hold on reality and his agreement with others on what reality is. (NOTL, p. 103) 2 
. at
the bottom there is nothing, above that there is a communication line, the 
line
becomes more solid, then above that terminals begin to materialize lightly 
and
the line becomes less solid, then above that you have the terminals and you don?t have any lines, and above that the terminals are there mostly by agreement, above that there is agreement, and above agreement there is consideration, individual consideration, and above that there is postulate. 
That is the Scale of Reality. (PAB 154)]


Actually you better look at the scale upside-down.
I give it again below.

At the scales top you come close to "static". The lower you go
along the scale the more solid it gets.

You see we start from:

Postulate,
Individual Consideration,
Consideration,
Agreement,
Terminals, ... the different flavors (solidities) of Communication ... 

As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that
it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to
suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could
then as-is a Thetan. A funny idea. Please do not worry, no Thetan is
in danger to be annihilated by another Thetan, or in the course of
processing through as-ising. That would make an interesting paradox.
Simply because no one who would have regained such an ability would
ever care about any Thetan or processing at all.

As well a postulate will not produce any read on a meter. Except
this one here: "This meter's needle is going to move!"
Those PC's who are already in good shape would rather move the
whole universe around the needle's pivot point instead ;-)

What makes the meter read is the effects which our postulates
create. In other words the postulate's manifestations in terms of
particles, movement, energies, masses (condensed energy), feelings,
emotions, images, charges, screens, symbols, ... you name it.

One can place a postulate into a solid - e.g. a wall. You may
or may not be able to "as-is" that wall. The postulate still remains.

Any postulate - consideration - thought (in that sequence) ever
brought forth by theta always was and always will be.
(Quiz-question: Which often used Bible-quotes says the same
in other words?)

Why is it then, that we are that much concerned with postulates in
any clearing technique which deserves to be called such?

What we have a problem with, is not the postulates itself but rather
that we can not make our postulates 'stick' - at least not in a
predictable and desirable manner.
Through the eons we came down we had put much attention and cleverness 
into the activity of building enormously complex postulate structures
with tons of lies, false ownerships (valences, co-creation),
complicated mechanisms of forgettingness, blackness, dub-ins,
automaticities, machinery of all kinds, aso.

The sole purpose of processing is to reestablish some order in that
chaos. In order to entangle the postulate structures you have to
go about it in a logical manner. You put aside a lot of rubbish first
until you can see through the complex fabric.
Why do we not just postulate ourself into a perfectly unaberated, healthy, able state? Presumably because we did not want it that way. Would be too 
easy. No fun in the game. It would constitute the same paradox
which was already mentioned further above in this text.

Therefore it does you no good if you use effort or be inpatient or
operate on false assumptions right form the beginning. False expectations 
(e.g. Hidden Standards) will rather slow you down. Effort will only
add to the solidity of ones reactive mind.
[CLEARING, 1 . a gradient process of finding places where attention is 
fixed and
restoring the ability of the pc to place and remove attention under his own determinism. (HCOB 28 Feb 59) 2 . what is clearing but regaining awareness 
that one is himself, and regaining confidence. (HCOB 1 Feb 58)]

(Emphasis on "gradient" in def.1)

Confidence in what?

In the only thing a Thetan can do :-)


Robin


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 03:56:40 -0800
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

Robin
You said "As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that 
it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to
suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could
then as-is a Thetan. "
What is the problem with as-using a postulate? If i made a postulate to smoke cigarettes in the past and want to stop smoking now then the correct way to do it is to examine, duplicate the original postulate and as-is it at which point i will no longer smoke cigarettes. Isn't this the way it works? 

Sincerely
Pete Mclaughlin

Sent from my iPad
On Jan 22, 2017, at 12:55 AM, The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> wrote: 

As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that
it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to
suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could
then as-is a Thetan.




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:18:04 -0500
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Fwd: Vorb's Trom Diary at 250 hours: The raging
  yawn -
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Pete,

I do not know.
I have never smoked or did any drugs except for experimentation, and found 
it repulsive or depressing.
Never had an addiction to alcohol either, actually do not like the effects 
of alcohol.

David



On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 2:01 AM, The Resolution of Mind list <
[email protected]> wrote:


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Hi David
How do you change a postulate after you have made it?
For instance if you decided to start smoking as a kid how would you go 
about changing your mind and not smoking from now on?

Sincerely
Pete McLaughlin

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 17, 2017, at 4:51 PM, The Resolution of Mind list <
[email protected]> wrote:

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Thanks  for your reply, Pete.
I have been doing that on different issues for years, and I can't say I 
have had  success.




David

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 6:35 PM, The Resolution of Mind list <
[email protected]> wrote:


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Hi David

Yes is am applying axiom 16.  Any time i have an ache, pain or
mis-emotion i focus my attention on it and duplicate it, view it, see it as 
clearly as possible.
If it is a sore thumb i look at the sensations and try to visualize the exact tissues in the thumb that are producing the pain sensation. I look for any incident in the past that is involved but usually there is none so i just focus on the painful sensation to make it as intense and the source 
of the pain as clear as possible.
Then I continue to focus on this sensation, pain , mis emotion whatever 
and it will soon fade away.

Then i carry on with what task i was doing.

Muriel Chen's book is all about applying this method to a number of
situations.

Sincerely
Pete McLaughlin


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 15, 2017, at 5:14 PM, The Resolution of Mind list <
[email protected]> wrote:

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Hi Pete,


Thank you for posting that.


Have you been able to make that axiom work?


If so how?


And what were the results?






David

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, The Resolution of Mind list <
[email protected]> wrote:


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Hi David
The book "The Creation of Human Ability" contains a list of self
evident truths derived from the "Logics and Axioms".

Item 16 is
16. COMPLETE DESTRUCTION IS ACCOMPLISHED BY THE POSTULATION OF THE AS- 
IS- NESS OF ANY EXISTENCE AND THE PARTS THEREOF.


So Hubbard did present a method to un-mock a postulate.

The book is downloadable as a pdf here:

http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Books/195
4%20CREATION%20OF%20HUMAN%20ABILITY.pdf

Sincerely

Pete McLaughlin




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