Blainer) It sounds like you have researched this far more than I thought, so apologize for the rash comments. I have no way to refute your assertions, but I do wonder if you are attaching more significance to the facts than I might. It seems clear to me from what you say thatJoseph Smith did a lot of things that are difficult to explain by your (our) standards. However, I do a lot of things that I might find difficult to justify to others, yet don't necessarily feel guilty about. If JS joined some Protestant church (s), I am confident he had good reasons for doing so. I have that much confidence in him, which confidence comes from knowing the many things he did, wrote, and experienced that were of God, and were good for others. He remains my hero, despite some shortcomings and failings. He was apparently disciplined by the Lord for some of these things. One thing mentioned was he often followed the "persuasions of men," disregarding the Lord's counsel in various matters. This was, believe it or not, encouraging to me, as I do the same, yet I continue to have hope in Christ, and believe I will yet be saved. I am just happy the Lord is a God of mercy as well as justice.
You know, we all want mercy and/or forgiveness for ourselves if we cross someone's path, but demand justice for the other fellow if our path is crossed. (:>) Like the man in the parable who was forgiven his huge debt by the king, yet went out immediately and grabbed the fellow who owed him a small sum of money and demanded payment, we often forget the mercy we have been shown and want justice to be done against our debtors/enemies. Typical human nature, is it not? At any rate, I would not judge JS too harshly, as what he did in the long run was to bring forth the BoM, under trying circumstances, as well as many other revelations that have enlightened mankind. I do not have an explanation for Sarah Stiles, yet I have confidence one will show up. I am at present convinced her date of birth needs to be confirmed, yet have not been able to do so. I have found NO other records that will either confirm or refute the date given. For this reason, I find the record of Sarah's marriage at age 5 to be interesting, but not conclusive, if for no other reason than it does not make any sense for it to have occurred in the first place. Subtract ten years from her birthdate, and suddenly everything makes sense. Sarah did marry HeberCKimball, and yes, he married many of Joseph's wives--probably to give them the support of a husband, having lost theirs. Neither one of these men were ever known to have married a child as far as I am aware, so again, it has to have some explanation. As to Heber marrying many of Joseph's wives, I do not see the same problem with this as you do, understanding the difference between eternal marriage and marriage for time only as I do. (My grand- father married a woman for time only in the temple--this was a sealing, but not for eternity. He did it for companionship in this life.) I see no reason why Heber C Kimball would have married these women for eternity--just for the remainder of their natural lives, as a sort of caretaker. They apparently were sealed to JS for eternity. If Heber fathered any children from any of them, the children would be counted as Joseph's, as Heber would have raised up seed for his friend, just as men in the Bible often did for their dead kin. However, all judgements of this kind are ultimately reserved for deity, as only God knows all. This is why every sealing done by men must eventually be sealed and confirmed by the Holy Spirit--otherwise it has no effect in eternity, despite the ordinance having been properly performed, recorded, etc. The Holy Spirit of Promise, as we call it, is the ultimate sanctioning authority for all sealings, ordinances, etc. This includes ordinances done for the deceased. On Mon, 30 Sep 2002 00:11:16 -0700 Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > � > > David Miller wrote: > > > Blainer wrote: > > > Again, it may have seemed to you to be sufficient to > > > draw the conclusions you drew, but I saw other possible > > > explanations, which I expressed.� I still see no conclusive > > > proof , even though I have searched the church's records > > > as much as time allowed.� I doubt anyone could have found > > > anything I did not find, yet no proof was ever forthcoming. > > > > When I first brought this situation up, I questioned what this was > all > > about.� How could a 5 year old marry Joseph Smith?� DaveH > explained that it > > was a sealing or celestial marriage. > > DAVEH:� And if I remember correctly, I mentioned that it happened > AFTER JS had died.� It was not as some TTers have been trying to > imply.....that he married a 5 year old whilst he was in mortality. > > > I still don't fully understand how all > > this makes it right.� The whole idea of many women marrying many > men > > eternally and many men marrying many women eternally creates such a > > confusing genealogy of eternal relationships that I just get a big > headache > > thinking about it and trying to unravel it all through the > genealogical > > record.� I have never been able to sort it out. > > > > Blainer wrote: > > > If you have CONCLUSIVE proof, please present it. > > > > I introduced the subject and have been waiting for you to report > on your > > investigation of the matter.� I think you know the web site where > you can > > search on this matter.� The name of the girl was Sarah Stiles.� > She was born > > in 1839, and although her marriage date to Joseph Smith was not > given, she > > must not have been more than 5 years old by the time Joseph Smith > died in > > 1844.� A few years after Joseph Smith's death, she married Heber > Chase > > Kimball, apparently while still a child.� The marriage date to > Kimball is > > given as 1846.� She couldn't have been more than 7 years old when > she > > married Kimball.� If you remember, I asked you to explain that.� > By the way, > > Kimball married a lot of Joseph Smith's widows.� I guess they are > going to > > do a lot of wife sharing eternally in heaven?� You guys have never > explained > > this eternal marriage stuff very well.� If they can wife share in > heaven, > > then I guess they can do it here on earth too?� I'm truly looking > for > > explanation here, not trying to make it look bad.� I'm giving you > facts and > > the way my mind interprets this stuff, and I want to hear from you > how all > > this seems good and holy in your eyes. > > > > Now you say that I was making unsupported assertions here, but > from my > > perspective, I have asked you questions about these matters.� I > don't > > understand why this child was marrying these important men in the > church. > > When I ask questions like this and don't get satisfactory answers, > that does > > not reflect very well upon Mormonism. > > � > > > > Peace be with you. > > David Miller. > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dave Hansen > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.langlitz.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > � > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you > may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you > have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
