Laura wrote:
> What happens when one of these "hard sinners" is
> saved.  Is he immediately perfect?  Perfect in the
> sense that he never sins again.

I've met both types.  Some immediately clean up an start a new life.  Others
appear that way for awhile, but stumble and have to get back up again.

Laura wrote:
> A man is a drug addict and living on the streets.
> You come along as a street preacher or whatever
> and he gets saved.  He is delivered from his addiction.
> Someone has to disciple him and you refer him to a
> church or group to do this.  Is he immediately going
> to stop swearing and clean up his life.  Of course not.

Don't be so quick to say, "of course not."  It depends upon the kind of
conversion that takes place, which I think is dependent upon the faith of
the person, and which often is dependent upon the kind of message delivered
to him when he believed.  Some of them do clean up immediately, never swear
again, never smoke again, drink, or do drugs again, and the discipleship
needed is not to deal with addictions and sin, but to learn the Word of God
and how to minister the Word to others.

Laura wrote:
> It takes time and love and growth.  Maybe I just have
> never come across the kind of salvation that makes a
> person immediately perfect and without sin.

John Wesely's teaching on Christian perfection is one that is along the
lines that you speak here.  He sees it as a maturity thing, and says that
men can grow and mature in such a way that their attitude, thoughts, and
everything they do is centered around Christ and they no longer sin.  I
agree with Wesley's perception in the sense that for many, this is how it
happens, but I do not restrict it to a maturing process.  Mainly because I
have known people, both in jail, and out of jail, who have experienced a
very sudden transformation.  Of course, only God can tell you to what extent
they were really "perfect," but I was not aware of any hidden sin in their
life, and was blessed by seeing how much in love with Christ they were.  In
the Bible, I think Mary Magdalene had that kind of transformation.  I do not
think she underwent extensive discipleship for years to deal with her many
years as a harlot.  Jesus cast the devils out of her, and I think she
instantly fell in love with our Lord and went and sinned no more from that
point forward.

Peace be with you.
David Miller.

----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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