Frank English [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dean, > > When I wrote:"Brother, are you not mixing your metaphors? A vine is NOT an > olive tree!"... > > You responded:"*The vine (Jesus Christ John15:5) and the election are the > same as is the olive tree-due to the fact that we are the" partakers of the > root and fatness of the olive tree". v.17" > > These statements are totally unrelated by scripture! When the Spirit uses > distinct terms, He intends distinct meanings. **But brother we are talking saved or lost here. Not saved ,lost,or Jew. > > You continued:"Roman 9:7..but in Isaac shall thy seed be called. The > children of the flesh are represented by Abraham and the children of the > spirit are represented by Isaac-who we are grafted into the vine/olive tree > by. Those of Abraham are cast out we are grafted in.Look at Gal.4:21-31" > > Dean, you really need to pay attention to the text! The contrast of > Galatians 4 is not between TWO MEN (Abraham and Isaac), but rather between > TWO WOMEN (Hagar and Sarah) and their sons (Ishmael and Isaac)! **The point is mote due to the fact that while the Bible mentions both groups of male/ female they are combined into one as" in Isaac shall thy seed be called". > > Nor does Abraham represent the children of the flesh who are cast out! Both > Ishmael and Isaac were sons of Abraham! Rather Galatians 3:29 teaches us > that, "If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to > the promise." **Was not Esau and his decedents children of Abraham?Yet he inherited no promise nor did his children (Mal.1:3). We seem to be going in circles here-The point of this is not who was cast out-but rather who was grafted into the promise-Who but those that believe in Jesus Christ-And in doing so we are to believe his words and he said to keep God's commandments-so we are to do so-including the 4th commandment. > > Further, you quoted bits and pieces of your text: "For it is written,That > Abram had two sons,.. v.24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the > two covenants;...v.30 So then brethren we are not children of the bondwomen > ,but of the free. > > Then you made an unsubstantiated claim:"The same vine- the same tree-the > same promise-the same commandments." > > You would have been better to read and quote the whole text including > Galatians 4:23, ALL of v.24 and verses 25-31! None of which speak of a > vine, an olive tree or commandments!!! ** But the wording is still correct-and what is written stays as is. > > Then you quoted two other texts which for the life of me I cannot see how > they have any bearing on the discussion of "the vine" and the "olive tree"! > > 1John 5:3 For this is the love of God,that we keep his commandments:and his > commandments are not grievous. > Matt.19:17...but if thou wilt enter into life keep the commandments. **To my understanding we were/are discussing God,s commandments as pertaining to the church-I gave these passages to that effect. > > I had written:"Romans 11 does NOT teach that the olive tree is Israel, but > rather "the election". See verses 5,7 and 28. As Gentiles who believe in > Christ, we are grafted in to the election but not into Israel." > > You responded"*As Gentiles who believe in Christ we are grafted into the > election that is the promise giving to Israel thru Isaac unto Jacob (whom is > Israel- the son of the promise-Gen.3:28 Thy name shall be no more Jacob, > but Israel...) which we are partakers of." > > Dear Dean, you really had my head spinning on this one! Gen 3 has no verse > 28! I finally realized you meant 32:28 (Jacob's name changed to Israel). But > there is no expression "son of promise" that I can find in scripture! But > in Gal.4:28 and 29 we read:" Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the > children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted > him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now." **Brother we can "play " with words all day long but the point is made"We are thru Isaac"-We inherited the promise and the commandments must be kept. > > As far as I can tell from scripture, all Israelites became Israelites by > natural fleshly birth. (Can you name anyone in scripture who is called an > Israelite who was not born an Israelite in the flesh?) But not all flesh > born Israelites who are "of Israel" are "Israel" (prince of God)! (Romans > 9:6) Instead, as the Lord Jesus plainly declared of some of them, "Ye are > of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do." John > 8:44 "The Gentiles are included in the Abrahamic covenant as well as the Jews,and therefore the Jews have no exclusive right to the blessing's of Gods kingdom ...Jews were not the whole of the promise...Abraham is the father of many nations. (Adam Clark Rom.9:6) "God accepts all believers,and them only..All are not Isreal-Not in the favor of God.Who are lineally descended of Israel. (John Wesley) **If to be an Prince of God is to be a Israelite-then we both are Israelite in the Faith that Abraham and Isaac were-as I understand that neither were born under Jacob of the flesh (to be called an Isrealite) but were both counted into the faith of the promise. > > Can you name even one person in scripture who was born a Gentile in the > flesh who is called by God "an Israelite" after conversion to Christ? If > you can, you will help me a lot on this because to date, I am unaware of any > such "Israelite"! To my understanding we believers are Israelites as being grafted in thru Jesus Christ.Timothy would more than likely fit this defination-But I will have to research this before I give a complete answer and as I am leaving for England,Ireland, Scotland and Wailes to preach the Gospel-I do not as this time have the freedom to do so. I will ask for your prayers as Street Preaching seems to be forbidding in these countries. > > I am willing to learn from clear scriptural statements, but refuse > assumptions which have no scriptural basis at all. **There is scriptural basis here-but will/can you hear them? > > Bruce > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/features&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin. msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
