From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy wrote: > You are right that I don't subscribe > to Hubert's opinion.
Judy, based on my personal relationship with Hubert, I would say that Hubert would agree with much of what you have shared. We need to be careful about being too critical of any quotes lifted out of context. Judy: I just responded to the quote you posted from Holy Hubert David. Yes it was cute as a 'one liner' but not God's heart on the matter. DavidM: For example, I could lift a quote from James about being justified by works and not by faith alone and try to say that he disagreed with Paul saying that we are justified by faith without works. Context and the people you are speaking to is very important. Judy: Yes .. this is why we should study and know God's Word for ourselves. DavidM: The quote I shared was being taught to Baptists who taught that women should never say a single word in church, but that they should be absolutely silent. Hubert first showed the absurdity of this idea, saying that such a position, if being consistent, would mean women could not even sing in church, because that would not be "silence." Judy: Good point. DavidM: He then showed how Paul made appeal to the law and pointed out what the law said about women. Judy: When Paul wrote "thus sayeth the law" he was talking about the Jewish writings or Mishnah which were comments made by the Rabbi's because the law itself says nothing about women being silent in an assembley. DavidM: One point he made was concerning the gender differences concerning vows, how a woman's word was not taken as binding unless the man allowed it. Judy: If the woman was still at home and her father heard the vow and said nothing it stood; if she was married and her husband heard the vow and said nothing that one stood also. However if the men heard the vow and disapproved they could make it void and this probably had to do with the property rights which were handed down through the male. heard it, and DavidM: In any case, I don't want to drag this out, but to Hubert's credit, I think it would be helpful for you to know that he was agreeing about women not ruling the church but that does not mean that women should not preach. His statement was a cute way of making that point. Judy: Thank you for shedding more light on Hubert's belief. However, neither should men be ruling the Church, we are all to be led by the Spirit of Christ. DavidM: In regards to Sarah's telling Abraham what to do, she was basically undoing her previous work of telling Abraham to take Hagar to be his wife. Furthermore, she did not exercise authority over Abraham in this regard, but simply expressed her desire and let Abraham make the decision. Judy: This is not the way it reads in my Bible DavidM: "But Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian whom she had borne to Abraham playing with her son Isaac; so she said to Abraham "Cast out this slave women with her son, for the son of this slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac" And the thing was very displeasing to Abraham on account of his son." But God said to Abraham "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you for through Isaac shall your descendents be named." (Genesis 21:9-12) DavidM: So from this perspective, Sarah did not rule Abraham, she did not tell Abraham what to do, but rather she regarded her husband Abraham as her lord. Judy: I don't know about ruling Abraham and I don't believe I made that claim. However, when I read the scripture above I see her telling Abraham what to do - I see Abraham being uncomfortable with it - and I see God validating what Sarah said he should do. How do you get around it, does your Bible says something different? DavidM: In this context, I think Hubert's statement still stands and is an effective way to distinguish between the authority to declare the gospel and the authority to rule over men. Judy: I liked Hubert's moxy and believe he had a godly compassion toward the unregenerate and unlovely but Jesus liberated women. Not to rule men or women but to serve as godly men are also called to serve. Grace and Peace, Judy ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
