----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:01
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Jesus had the same
sinful flesh that we have
From: "David Miller" <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Judy
wrote:
> What I don't accept is Jesus being born with the
spiritual
> inheritance left to the rest of us by the first Adam after
> his fall.
DavidM:
Spiritual inheritance? What is spiritual inheritance? How is
it
transferred to us? Where does the Bible teach "spiritual
inheritance"?
Judy:
Iniquity is a generational participation with sin bearing the same
fruit.
It shows up as inherited genetic disease and it shows up in a
predisposition
to personality characteristics such as molestation and doing crime,
drugs,
rage, anger, and fear. When the Jews of the dispersion returned to
Jerusalem and found the book of the law. They stood and listened to
it being read all day, and after they agreed to get rid of their
foreign wives,
they confessed their sins, and the iniquities of their fathers. (Nehemiah
9:2)
Blaine: Recent research that I am familiar
with does seem to indicate there is a genetic predisposition to live a sinful
life. But then, what was thought to be genetic often turns out to
be more related to what the mother took into her body during pregnancy.
Alcohol, drugs, even tobacco and caffeine have been shown to have some effect
on the fetus' development, althought the extent of damage is almost always
difficult to determine. I listened to a lecture given several years ago
by one of Utah's top authorities on child behavior disorders, and he said he
"would not touch a baby (for adoption) whose mother had used drugs with a ten
foot pole." I have looked into fetal alcohol syndrome
and have found that although there are kids who clearly have it as shown
by their facial and other physical features, many others have been shown to
have it to a milder degree, with no apparent deformities, but later showing up
as anti-social personality disorders, psycopathy/sociopathy, compulsive
obsessive disorders, alcoholism, drug dependancies, even ADD and/or
ADHD. The increase of use of Ritalin and like drugs could probably
be shown to parallel increase in alcohol consumption. Then, to add
insult to injury, we have almost half of all marriages ending in divorce, so
then we get broken homes and the resultant dysfunctionality of
families .
I wrote:
> Jesus did not have Adam's genes -
DavidM:
He most certainly did. The Bible teaches that he was made of the
woman
(Gal. 4:4),
Judy:
Born of the woman and born under the law (Gal 4:4); where do you
get the idea the He was "MADE" of the woman?
DavidM:
was made flesh (John 1:14, Romans 1:13),
Judy:
Romans 1:13 says nothing about Jesus being "MADE" flesh; John 1:14
says the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld His
glory the glory of the ONLY begotten of the Father full of grace and
truth.
and Vs18 "No man has seen God at any time; the ONLY begotten God
who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. So
Jesus
was BEGOTTEN, not MADE.
DAVIDM:
was begotten of Adam (Luke 3:22-38), and Jesus was truly, in truth,
a mortal man being made the son of man (John 5:27, Luke 24:7).
Judy:
The geneaogy in Luke 3:23-38 is through Joseph and we all know
that Joseph was not the biological Father of Jesus - this does not
make Him a son of the first Adam, he was born of the woman.
I wrote:
> He was created in Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit.
> Is that too hard for God or is it just hard for
> us to
accept? He is not the fruit of any fallen
> person's body. If God could
create the first Adam
> full grown, why is it so hard to accept that
God
> could create a baby in Mary's womb independent of
>
Mary? Has science become our new god.
It is not too hard for God to have created Jesus this way, but
such
teaching is contrary to what the Bible teaches. The Bible
teaches
that Jesus was made of a woman and truly became flesh like the
rest of us. He was not some alien from outer space. He was a
mortal man just like the rest of us.
Judy:
Yes he was mortal in the sense that he had a full range of emotions
and he got hungry and had to rest but he was not born with the
fallen bloodline the rest of us are heir to.
DavidM:
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he
also himself likewise TOOK PART OF THE SAME; that through death
he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime
subject to bondage. For verily HE TOOK NOT ON HIM THE NATURE
OF ANGELS; BUT HE TOOK ON HIM THE SEED OF ABRAHAM.
Wherefore IN ALL THINGS it behoved him TO BE MADE LIKE UNTO
HIS BRETHREN, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest
in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the
people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted,
he is able
to succour them that are tempted. (Hebrews 2:14-18 KJV)
Judy:
Phil 2:6,7 explains how he is MADE like his brethren ie: "Who,
being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with
God
but MADE HIMSELF of no reputation, and took upon him the form of
a servant, and was MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN; and being found
in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient to
death
even the death of the cross" Yes He took flesh & blood upon Himself
and every sin known to humanity on the cross at Calvary so I would
say He knows about sin first hand.
"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the
feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we
are,
YET WITHOUT SIN (Hebrews 4:15) For every high priest taken
from
among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that
he
may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sin; who can have
compassion
on the ignorant and on them that are out of the way; for that
he
himself also is compassed with infirmity; and by reason hereof he
ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins"
(Hebrews 5:1-3). Conclusion: Jesus did not go beyond the veil
with an offering for his own sin and He was not compassed with
generational sin/infirmity.
DavidM:
Believe the BIBLE, not the fairy tales told by the religious
clergy.
Judy:
TT are the only 'religious clergy' I presently hear fairy tales
from,
but I will accept your counsel on this point...
Grace and Peace,
Judy
