Thanks for the well-tempered explanation. You see, I do believe in and have faith in Christ, and I have prayed to be led to the truth, and I have read Mormon works seeking to see if any of it is true, and all I get out of it is that it is a false religion. I have found find lies, deceit, cultic activities, secret Masonic-like ceremonies, signs, grips, penalties, and tokerns, secret names, adultery, plaigerism, contradiction, occultic symbols, men who become gods who are from other planets, angels that become men, then angels, then men, then angels, and basically use the same symbols and methods that all cults routinely use.
What am I to think? Am I to go against my gut, against what scripture says, and against common sense to try to accept as factual something that is so hideous and repulsive to me? I can understand that you were raised in the LDS belief system, and that you have accepted it all as pure truth, light, and beauty. I cannot, and as long as the scripture, the Spirit, and common sense continue to rail against what I have learned about the LDS, I will not accept it as being from God, but from men.
I apologize that I do not have a higher opinioin of the LDS church. LDS are wonderful people who believe strongly and deeply in their church, and I have nothing personally against any of them, especially you and DaveH.
Much of the doctrine of the LDS is hidden beneath layers of secrecy and slowly revealed to converts. You call this "moving to a higher horizon", but is little more than an indoctrination into the cult. The secrecy is primarily to protect the convert from repulsion until they have effectively been programmed into the current level. LDS are not the only ones that operate this way. All cults do, and the Masoons do, and many other "fraternal" organizations. Why is it that the LDS church operates using the same principals that all cults use, but Christianity does not?
Ask me anything about Christianity. Although I might be able to answer it, I can go to the scripture and find out. There is nothing hidden. Nothing we have to prepare you for to understand it. Nothing we cannot reveal to you, as it is all laid out plainly in scripture. Christ himself told all, and admitted that he hid nothing. No secret handshakes, no secret names, none of those functions that for centuries have identified cults.
I sincerely pray that someday the Mormons realize that the veil has been rent, and that they may go directly to God, through Jesus Christ, and without all of the cultic trappings of the Mormon church.
Perry
From: "Blaine Borrowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ad hominem rule Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:58:21 -0700
Blaine: Hmm, I understand what you are saying Perry, and I sense your
frustration. Maybe we have really been throwing you guys some curves, it
sounds like. LOL But, we do not deliberately mislead, and that is my
point. We tell others whatever they really really want to know--but do not
tell them what they want to hear, necessarily, as you seem to think we do.
We do have a message, and if it is not digestible now, we hope it will be
later when you guys get a little further along the path of eternal
progression. We love you guys, so we may try to insure that what we send
out does not overload the spiritual preparedmess that you bring to the
situation. New truths are always hard to digest anyway, so we don't want to
make them any harder than necessary. Eternal progression is essentially a
process of moving from one horizon to a higher one, ad infinitum. If you
try to push to the higher level before you are ready to fully appreciate
what it has in store for you, you may just end up aborting the entire
process. That is what we often see happening on TT, unfortunately, as some
individuals push to try to understand the higher level without first fully
understanding the principles upon which that level is built. We try very
hard to build that foundation of understanding but receive a lot of
resistence in the process. May I suggest again that if you exercise faith
even to a small degree, called belief, as the grain of a mustard seed, the
truth will then take root in you and will grow--but if you resist the truths
we try to convey to you, you will naturally never get to the point of
understanding you need to be at in order to receive the higher truths, which
both Dave and I understand as far as they have been revealed to us at this
time. That is not to say we ourselves know all and are all wise--we just
have achieved most of the understanding that God has allowed for us to know
for now, and he has assured us that is sufficient for his grace to operate.
I personally believe knowledge and understanding are the keys to the Kingdom
of God, and without it, noone can either function in that Kingdom or even
fully appreciate it. But to gain the knowledge that is needed, one must
constantly pray and exercise faith in the Lord Jesus Christ--and that faith
will give us hope, and that hope will enlarge the soul without hypocrisy,
unto the perfect day when we will know as we are known and see as we are
seen. But the key is understanding, and that as you undoubtedly already
know, is built level by level, or as the Lord would say, grace for grace.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ad hominem rule
> Blaine,
>
> Yes. Either that, or you both are extremely naive. For example, DavidH
> said that he believes non-Mormons can go to heaven. I feel confident that
he
> knows that Christians believe there is one place called heaven, and LDS
> believe there are three. He did not point this out...and since non-Mormons
> go to a different LDS heaven than Mormons, in this sense he was
> intentionally misleading TT'rs who may not know that LDS consider there to
> be three heavens. The effect is to appear to agree with Christians, while
> secretly having a hidden meaning that you are using. I do not think that
> either you or DaveH are naive enough to not know what is going on.
>
> When missionaries do this, I can find room to excuse them, because I
> believe they may be naive. But, when seasoned LDS apologists like
yourselves
> who hang out with Christians do it, you are intentionally "not telling the
> whole story".
>
> Perry
>
> >From: "Blaine Borrowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: "TT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: [TruthTalk] ad hominem rule
> >Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:09:04 -0700
> >
> >Perry wrote: > > I do not want Christians who
> > > > do not know the LDS meanings to be mislead into thinking that the
> > >Mormons
> > > > think or believe the same way Christians do. Call me protective, but
I
> > >feel
> > > > it is my duty, if I know that someone is being mislead by words, to
> > >correct
> > > > that. You certainly aren't going to tell them that you mean
something
> > > > different.
> >
> >Blaine wrote: Are you saying either DaveH or I deliberately mislead?
You
> >seem to be implying this in some of your posts, and particularly this
one.
> >In fact, this post seems to be a thinly veiled attack on the character of
> >Mormons in general, and since we are the only two Mormons on TT to read
> >your posts, an attack on us personally? I sense you are getting tired of
> >having to account for what you write, but one more answer is due here, it
> >appears. Yes, I am putting you on the spot, in light of the ad hominem
> >rule of TT.
>
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> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
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