Kevin Deegan wrote:
Yes all men will be ressurected
DAVEH: OK.....maybe we aren't as far apart as I imagined, Kevin. Let me restate what I perceive you believe so I can be sure I am understanding you correctly........You believe ALL mortals (good and/or bad) will inherit a resurrected physical body after mortality......correct?
Some to Everlasting lifeDAVEH: OK......I assume you agree with me that is meant in a spiritual sense? Whereas receiving a physical resurrection we discussed above requires no effort on our part......now, the "Everlasting life" or spiritual life does require some effort on our part....do you agree? For instance, at the very least it requires you to exercise faith and repentance, so it cannot be considered as a totally free gift. Do you agree that those who do not exercise faith and repent of their sins will NOT inherit "Everlasting life"???Some to die the SECOND DEATH and Face Everlasting DESTRUCTION
DAVEH: Again, Kevin.......I don't think we are far apart on this. Can you agree with me that those who do not take the first steps (such as the faith and repentance I mentioned above) to accepting Jesus as their Savior will face a spiritual death (Everlasting DESTRUCTION) after their physical resurrection? That is my belief and is apparently somewhat as you believe as far as I can see at this point.Assuming we agree with the above basic premise, then I'm not sure why you disagree on the meaning of what I explained 1Cor 15:22 meant as I described in my below previous post to you.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:
DAVEH: It seems to me the free gift spoken about in this passage is the physical resurrection all men will receive due to Jesus' resurrection, which applies to all men as Paul described in 1Cor 15:22 below. One does not have to do anything to earn a physical resurrection.....it truly is a free gift to all mortals.1 Corinthians 15:21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.Those that are IN Christ will be made alive. Those that are without (OR OUTSIDE OF CHRIST) will face EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree with you on this, Kevin. You have emphasized the in while ignoring the all. All men physically die due to Adam's transgression. All men do not die spiritually because of Adam's transgression, but they die spiritually because of their own sins. However, all men do die (physically) due to Adam's transgression. I thought (from previous posts of TTers) that it is commonly believed by Protestants that all men will be resurrected from their physical deaths. Is that not correct, Kevin? Perhaps I misunderstood.....1 Thes 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.DAVEH: I don't see how you draw this into the discussion about physical resurrections. You are mixing apples and oranges on this one, IMO. Let's try to keep it simple.......Do you believe all men (good/bad) will physically resurrected, Kevin?1 Thes 5 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe
It is VERY Clear that UNBELIEVERS are not going to see life but WRATH!
JN 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.Jude 1 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not..
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Regarding the word "death", I think that it is used sometimes to meanDAVEH: Perry, I hope you and DavidM don't mind me contributing a bit to this thread. If you look at vs 18.....
physical death, and sometimes to mean spiritual death. I try to understand
it within the context in which I read it.>
> >From my perspective, physical death came because of sin, as did sickness
>and disease, which is basically incipient death. I believe that Adam
>and Eve freely ate of the tree of life before they sinned. Following is
>one passage which seems to connect death with sin entering the world.
>
>"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
>and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans
>5:12 KJV)I think that, except for speaking of the death of Christ in Romans 5, the
chapter refers to spiritual death."Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation {which I believe to be physical death}; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto the justification of life {this can only mean a physical resurrection, since it is to all men}.
.......It seems to me the free gift spoken about in this passage is the physical resurrection all men will receive due to Jesus' resurrection, which applies to all men as Paul described in 1Cor 15:22 below. One does not have to do anything to earn a physical resurrection.....it truly is a free gift to all mortals.
>The following passage indicates death to be an enemy, which would show
>it to be not part of God's plan, but something we were subjugated to
>because of sin.
>
>"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1 Corinthians 15:26
>KJV)1 Corinthians 15:21-23 says, "21 For since by man came death, by man came
also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in
Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ
the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. "I think 1 Corinthians 15 speaks of physical death, for it speaks of the
resurrection at Christ's return (when the corruptible shall put on the
incorruptible, and the mortal immotality).
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Dave Hansen
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http://www.langlitz.com
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