Re: [TruthTalk] The Trinity

[Dave]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/11/2004 11:29:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH:  Thanx for the offer, John.  At this point in time, I don't think I am comfortable with understanding grace as you apparently must Why not? DAVEH:  Because I think there are a few clues found in the Bible that might suggest many folks may misunderstand the nature and relationship of grace & works.   The scriptures and biblical references to grace verses law are in the same Bible Mormons possess.  Right there in black and white.   Jere 31:31-34 reads the same as in my Bible. DAVEH:  Are you of the house of Israel, John?  (vs 33)   Romans 3 bears the same teaching. DAVEH:  And in conclusion, Paul reminds us not to neglect the law.   Hebrews explains the same redemptive sacrifice.  I Cor 8:1-3 makes our relationship in love with God more important than religious oriented (or any other kind)  knowledge as precisely in your Bible as mineand so on.       DAVEH:  I think it is important to consider who he was speaking to, and why he was preaching as he did.  Perhaps the folks needed to know it isn't their works that save them (even though works may be a necessary element of salvation), but rather it is Jesus who is the redeemer, and lacking faith in Christ is not overcome by any works by/of themselves. This biblical teaching of unmerited forgiveness makes the primary need for a second effort (Mormonism) a non issue. DAVEH:  Yet some of the Primitive Christians thought a second effort was necessary, as is evidenced by 1Cor 15:29.  Instead of criticizing them for practicing baptism for the dead, Paul used their works for the dead as an example of an important doctrine.....the resurrection.   God did not get it wrong the first time.   He did not misunderstand the wickedness of those whom he intended to save.   He is not out of control when it comes to the history of man's walk with Him.   As I see it, the claim that God failed to get it right with the New Covenant is amazing.   If not, why not. DAVEH:  Are you part of that New Covenant, John?  If so....what is it that you have covenanted to do? John -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.