RE: [TruthTalk] Indicatives and Imparatives

[ShieldsFamily]

Oh, gee thanks, Terry.  Make me think for myself. (Men!) Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Indicatives and Imparatives   You can't understand Bill all at once Izzy.  You have to slowly absorb it over three or four readings, but it is worth the trouble. Terry ShieldsFamily wrote: Brother Terry, Why are you always light years ahead of me???? Something is not clicking in my (right) brain. Can somebody ‘splain it to me???? Waaaahhhhhhhh! Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Indicatives and Imparatives   Bill:  Thank you, thank you, thank you.  You have turned on a light.  If I ever studied this way before, it was by accident. Now I have a new tool or method or whatever you want to call it, and I can see already that it is going to give me a badly needed growth spurt.  This one change will give the Holy Spirit new freedom to lead me.  (We can keep Him fettered, you know)  Terry                                                                                                                                                                       ; ;                                                      Wm. Taylor wrote: Now that we're back on the narrow a little, I was wondering if any of you read this and if you had taken the challenge. How's it going how are the imperatives lining up with the indicatives.   ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:11 PM Subject: Indicatives and Imparatives   Terry set out a challenge for us to take into our considerations over the next week. It was a good challenge; the kind that is already bearing fruit as we read of God's splendor in people's lives. I will be taking his challenge with me this week.   I read this discussion between jt and js (see below, waaay below), and my heart becomes heavy. Rather than saying why that is at this time, I would like to put forth another challenge for the week ahead. In our quiet time, when we're just reading the Bible because we love God's word, why don't we pay attention to the relationship between the indicatives of grace and how they stand in comparison to the imperatives of obedience? There's much to be learned here and appreciated if we will but try to do it.      If you are unfamiliar with my terms, please allow me to explain them a little further. Indicatives are verbs that indicate the status of relationship between the subject and the object of a sentence. Indicatives do not expect or request things of the object; they simply indicate and declare; e.g., in Jesus' prayer of John 17, look at the nature of the subject-object relationships in verse 19 -- "For their sakes I sanctify myself that they also might be sanctified through truth." Jesus is the subject throughout this statement. The verb "sanctify" is indicative. Jesus sanctifies himself that the objects of his act, the their and theys, might also be sanctified through truth. The verb indicates his heart for them; it indicates his desire for them; it indicates his intention for them; it indicates his willingness to suffer on their behalf, it indicates how he loves them, all very relational stuff. The "indicatives of grace" are those verbs that indicate the status of our relationship with the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit. What is the status of that relationship? That is the question.   Imperatives, on the other hand, are verbs which do make requests and carry expectations. Often times in statements where the verb is an imperative, the speaker, the one making the request, is not explicitly identified in the statement itself. We have to look for the speaker elsewhere in the context of the passage to determine his identity. By nature then imperatives are less relational than indicatives in terms of closeness between the subject and objects involved. This is not to say that imperatives are non-relational verbs -- quite the opposite. It simply means that the subject-object relationship of imperatives is dependent upon the closeness supplied by the indicatives of their relationship. In other words, relational proximity is established by indicatives and not imperatives. Let me say this differently.   Let's look at Matthew 28.18-20; there's all kind of indicatives and imperatives in this passage. Let's look at how they relate. When Jesus says, "... Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, ..." the words "go" and "make" are imperatives. They are commands. The subject of this statement itself is "you." You go and you make disciples. Now, the question is, is Jesus heaping the whole weight of disciple making upon the backs of his disciples? This statement, by itself (and without support from a greater context!), sounds as though he is. It doesn't sound like he is close to them; it sounds like he's abandoning them! Is that the case? No! Of course not But we can only know that if we go looking for the proximity of the speaker, the first subject of the statement, in relationship to the recipients of his command (This is so important, because sometimes the indicatives of the Speaker-recipient relationship are several verses removed from the imperatives of his request, sometimes they even show up after the imperatives have been stated. BECAUSE sometimes the commandments will make us feel very isolated and over weighted, AND SO we need know how to find something to indicate the nature of our relationship to the speaker).   Where is Jesus going to be while his disciples are making disciples? What is his role in all of this? Where is he speaking from? To answer those questions we have to look for something which indicates the status of Jesus' relationship to his disciples. In this instance we do not have to look very far: "And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. ... and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." The verbs "came" and "spoke" are indicatives. The verb "is given" is indicative. The verb "am," in I am with you always, is indicative. What is the relational status between Jesus and his disciples in the commandment to "go" and "make"? It is very close and tight, Jesus empowering his disciples. We know this because of the indicatives supplied by the greater context. Disciples go and make new disciples through his authority and power, baptizing them in his name (the name of our God) and teaching them to obey, and we do this knowing that he is close and that he is with us always. Oh those wonderful indicatives of Grace!   The challenge for us is to search out those indicatives of grace every time we come across an imperative of obedience. Where is the speaker? Who is the speaker, really? What do His indicatives indicate about the status of our relationship with Him? What does being obedient to what he commands indicate about our relationship to Him?   I think if we will take this challenge and place it alongside Terry's, we'll find that we have all kinds of things to be thankful for, and we won't be bored or running out of things to do -- everything to the glory of this wonderful Savior.   Thanks,     Bill Taylor