Re: [TruthTalk] Re:Dialogue with Mormons

[Dave]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/31/2004 8:10:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't want to speak for Blaine, but I see nothing in Mormonism that prevents either of us to fellowship with non-LDS Christians.  Perhaps I don't understand fellowship quite the same way you do though. Good post.  And thanks for not taking offense.   I am afraid I did speak for Blaine.   Probably a mistake. Fellowship.  I do think that fellowship is bigger than denominational boundaries but limited  by a true sense of mutuality and purpose.  A lexical view of koinonia reveals a number of nuances, to wit  (old guys say that a lot, "to wit"):  fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse.  Note the progression.   It was part of the routine of the first church (Acts 2:42).    My experience with the Mormon church has been one that is the  witness to a degree of exclusion which goes beyond sectarian or denominational bias.  It seems to me that this exclusiveness is the surrounding halo of a  world religion.   If that is the case, we have no fellowship or brotherhood.   I don't like saying that.  I have only my instincts about this issue. If Blaine and I are brothers (or Dave and I),   to what eventuality can we point as the defining factor which presents us with the same Parent? Or is there more to brotherhood than divine genetics?     DAVEH:  Perhaps you (representing Protestants in general) do not understand the LDS concept of brotherhood.  From what I see in TT, brothers in Christ are those who share a common salvational perspective.  IOW.....If one perceives he is saved by Jesus, he is bonded to others who profess similarly to the exclusion of those who do not perceive themselves to be saved.....such as those non Christians or LDS folks like myself.      OTOH.....From the LDS perspective, we all are brothers in that we were spirit children (pre-mortal earth life) of heavenly parents, and despite out differences of beliefs we still maintain that pre-mortal heritage of being literal children of God.  That even applies to those who stray from the paths of righteousness or belief.  Just as Jesus was out spirit brother in the pre-mortal existence, so was Lucifer.  However, though we share a common root of existence with reprehensible beings devoted to fighting against the Lord and the plan of salvation, we recognize how they came to be and what effect they have on their own progression, and that of ourselves.  Somewhere between the extremes of Jesus and Lucifer, we have a whole spectrum of spirit creations who conform to the Lord's will in some measure.  While some (such as the despots of the world) fall toward the lower end of the scale, others (perhaps some of the noble prophets of the Bible like David or Moses) may be at the upper end of the same scale.  Somewhere in between, lay most of the rest of us.  Though one may be closer to God (in terms of trodding on the path back to heaven) than another, we always have hope the Prodigal Son will return.  Did the PS gain his fellowship with his blood relatives ONLY AFTER his repentance?  Or did he always share a brotherhood with his family, even when slopping the hogs?  I feel it is the same with us......Even when a (spirit) brother has departed from the ways of the Lord, and may even kick against the pricks....we still share a common root in that both he and I (and you, John) were spirit creations of God.   And, I simply don't feel comfortable condemning as bad something God created.  There will come a time when judgment will pass on all of us, and I'll be happy to let the Lord do the judging of my fellow brothers.  Until then, I'll just assume we are all brothers and try to treat my brethren (whether LDS or not) as part of  my eternal family.      Now don't misunderstand.....IF the Lord gives one of my brothers the boot (as he did Lucifer) out of heaven, I will not only feel badly for that spirit creation that failed to measure up, but I will consider him a lost cause.   For those who remained in heaven and became mortal, I will simply consider lost sheep who need a shepherd and may hopefully someday return to the fold.      So John......Though I may believe many of the doctrines you may have adopted are in error, I don't see why that should keep us from some form of fellowship.  However, I think many TTers believe that which I believe is so evil that it is not acceptable to them in the Lord's eyes to associate with me in any form.....unless I exhibit some possible chance of reform.  I assume that is why so few TTers would consider me to be their brother, yet both Blaine (I think I can speak for him on this) and I consider all TTers to be our brothers in the Lord. John -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.