Re: [TruthTalk] Smithson, Taylor and the Canucks ... especially for y'all

[Wm. Taylor]

Not offended in the least, Chris, just a bit slow. Thanks for the clarification -- it makes great sense now. The Trinitarian doctrine of God does not, as I see it, exclude from the Faith once delivered people as yourself who do not ascribe to it, not as long as you are not denying the full deity of Jesus in the process. The concern I have about your view of God is a relational one and not one that necessarily throws you out of Christian fellowship (and I hope that is not offensive to you either).   I once heard a sermon, the theme being "Everything God does, he does for himself." I would be glad to go into the details if you wish but that should not be necessary to make my point. When we as people do things only for ourselves, we think of it in terms of psychosis, a unhealthy self-preoccupation: selfish, self-centered, self-serving, egotistical, the list is long. We are not whole and complete and healthy unless we are other-centered in our thoughts and service. In other words, Christians believe we (humans) must be relational in our activities or we cannot love God with all our being and our neighbors as ourselves.   When we say that everything God does he does for himself, we must interject into that statement some sort of relational element within the Godhead or, it seems to me, we have projected onto God what we consider sick about ourselves; either that, or we have no basis to think poorly of those around us who do live for and love only themselves. Having been created in the image of God, they are the healthy ones. We call the excessive love and admiration of oneself narcissism and hardly think of it as a godly attribute. How wrong we are! It is we who sadly suffer low self-esteem. The empathy we feel for others is but a symptom of our own deep psychosis.   I know you have never thought of it in these terms (or at least I suspect you have not). But it seems to me we cannot call God a relational being unless he is relational within the properties of his own being (I would say essence but Judy wouldn't understand). If he is one in terms of a singularity instead of unity (as I understand the Hebrew to mean) then he had to create in order to relate; for with whom was there to relate when all there was was God? Yet we are taught in Scripture that God's desire is for relationship with us.   On the other hand, the heart of God, as I see it, is the other-centered love the Father has for the Son and the Son for the Father both in and through the Holy Spirit. The early church called this relationship perichoresis, likening the give and take between the Three to a dance. Here we have a God whose heart it is to share his love with others and to bring his creation into that dance. This does not change the nature of God or make him dependant upon his creation; for he is relational in his own essence (I know, I know, but I just couldn't help myself) and the nature of love, being healthy, is always and still other-preoccupied.   Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble, but thought you may be interested in any thoughts sparked by your comments.   Blessings,   Bill   ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Barr To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Smithson, Taylor and the Canucks ... especially for y'all \o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/  Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !   Taylor is held in high regard by the Canucks, and would seem to be the resident trinitarian scholar as well, so I thought to include you.  Thought the story might be of interest or a note of amusement to you.   My apology if you were offended.   Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, (Bless The LORD)   Chris Barr a servant of YHVH     ----- Original Message ----- From: Wm. Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07/23/2004 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Smithson, Taylor and the Canucks ... especially for y'all Thanks Chris, tell us though: What does Taylor have to do with the Canucks. Taylor is from the high plains of eastern Colorado. He once worked one very cold winter in the taconite mines of Northern Minnesota, replacing burned out bricks in very hot furnaces and wind ducts, and so he knew a few Canucks, but that is his only immediate connection with the bunch -- oh and the Avalanche were once Canadians but not Canucks. So, tell him, sir, what's the connection?  ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Barr To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 9:07 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Smithson, Taylor and the Canucks ... especially for y'all \o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/  Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !   I have never been much of one for listening to preaching tapes.  The exceptions to that have been Robert Bayer (sometimes called "the Walking Bible" for his command of Scripture all committed to memory) and John Ekstadt.  Bayer I have seen many times, and spent some considerable personal time with as well.  John Ekstadt I never met.   John Ekstadt was a peculiar treasure of The Almighty.   Smithson may have some particular appreciation for him.  Ekstadt became a UPC preacher that UPC preachers often loathed as he taught with Scriptural authority against their pet rapture doctrine as well as many other pat pet pablum standard fare of UPC.   However, he was not always a UPC preacher.   Upon his death several UPC ministers reportedly were heard chuckling as another said in a mocking tone, "Well, the old prophet is dead."   Eckstadt was a Canuck from eastern Canada (Nova Scotia if memory serves).  He was an unruly terror as a boy and as a young man -- full of fight.  He came by it natural as his father was the same.   Eckstadt began to go to a Baptist church which his father tolerated though with much mocking.  He also was warned not to go too far with religion and especially to stay away from the holy rollers.   Making a long story short he was baptized in The Holy Spirit with the Assemblies of God but kept it from his father.  One day his father came home quite early from work very unexpectedly to come upon his son in the loft praying in tongues.   "That's IT", his father exclaimed and threw all his belongings out the upstairs window crying out, "Praise The Lord and pass the ammunition"!   Ecstadt became a preacher for the AG.  He was a terror to the UPC, as he preached against Oneness and baptism in The Name with such fervor and authority that  he converted many away from UPC to the AG.   Then as with The Apostle Paul the bright Light of the World shined down.  The Word revealed Himself to Eckstadt, he was baptized in The Name, and preached with the result that even more were converted to Oneness than he ever had converted to the trinity.   On one tape set he preached the trinity in such a convincing manner that he warned Oneness listeners as he began that they should not listen unless they would immediately follow it with the next tape that gave answer with Oneness, for fear that their faith would be shaken.   UPC tolerated him due to the strength of The Anointing upon him and his command of Scripture though they did not herald him much in their ranks.  I have found it so with UPC that the grandest of their preachers as far as anointing and command of Scripture are not heralded, while those they herald I have found to generally be as Bill Shakespeare wrote, "Much Ado About" not all that much.   I have found UPC to stand most accurately for Union of Pentpolitical Churches.   Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, (Bless The LORD)   Chris Barr a servant of YHVH