PS:
John you may be aware of all
this already - I'm not instructing you, just got excited over it this a.m.
and you are the recipient of
my joy :) What a blessing... pray you and Kathy have a blessed day in the
Lord. jt
John writes:
Judy, of course I am speaking of the situation prior to the
mission of Christ. And New Covenant is overtaking an
Old. I know this. The Jews of the time considered themselves
the people of God --- still do. I am not saying that is
the way it is today. Rather, this is the view they had of
themselves. That is why the repentance baptism preached by John the
B for the first time and preached to Jews only, would have had such an
impact. Those who believe that baptism is for the remission of sins, today,
believing that we are not saved without nor before this act occurs, miss the
point of the command --- a very well considered illustration of the
need for all to turn around and come to the Lord. John
jt: I'm not disagreeing with you John,
well not entirely .. but I no longer see the New Covenant as disengaged from the
Old as it is taught in most churches today. I find what Jeff says
interesting where he writes: The
act of immersion symbolizing ritual cleanliness is rooted within the
Torah. According to Rabbi Dosick, "Tevilah (Hebrew, meaning the act
of immersion) was required in order to put or keep a person in a state of
ritual purity for the purpose of performing a mitzvot
(commandment)." The water is not used for
physical cleanliness, instead it serves as a symbolic rebirth, an
emergence from the cleansing waters of new beginnings. While the Torah
commands that this be in living,flowing water, a stream, river, or lake
for example, this cannot always be accomplished because of weather
conditions. The Mikveh was created to serve the purpose in these
instances. It had to be large enough for complete immersion and filled
with "Living water" (Mayim Hayim, the water of life), simmilar to todays
baptismals. When Yochanan the Immerser appeared
on the scene he was not trying to convert Gentiles, he was calling on Jews to
purify themselves by the ritual of rebirth we know today as baptism.
Birthright was not even an issue.
Selah!! The issue has
always been a spiritual one and now the symbolism of the OT is replaced with the
reality of the NT. What Jeff wrote really speaks to me about the need for
spiritual cleanliness or purity before performing the work of God and Jesus uses
the exact same imagery when He says "out of your belly shall flow rivers of
living water" ..... We are to come to Him and drink. Ritual baptism
without a change of heart does nothing but get one wet - then or now and
natural generation does not save - then or now.
The problem is a spiritual
one and so is the answer. Remember, the Jews had a zeal for God, but
not according to knowledge.
Grace and Peace,
Judyt
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"Child of God" in the sense that they were the people of God, the chosen ones. Are you saying that the first centruy Jew (non-disciple of Christ) was not a child of God by birth, a people of God by birth, in their own mind. You have got me a little off guard. I have never been "corrected" on this point before -- and for an old guy, that is saying something. Splain please. John
Yes that's what I'm saying. Well actually Jesus said it Himself. The Jews prided themselves because they were the children of Abraham genetically and they thought this would put them over no matter what - but Jesus told them that if they were truly the children of Abraham they would have a different kind of spiritual fruit in their lives. (John 8:39) John the Baptist told them the same thing (Matt 3:9, Luke 3:8). Yes God chose the natural generation of Abraham to work through (by covenant) and He expected a spiritual harvest or spiritual fruit from them - and He still does. judyt
