[TruthTalk] Faith and Works

[Judy Taylor]

I don't believe God tests faith per se.  He says in the scriptures that he will test the heart to see if we love Him  (Deut 13:3) and that our works will be tried by fire - only the real will make it, wood, hay, and stubble always burns.  judyt     Perhaps when God tests people’s faith, He is not testing it in order for HIM to see if it’s real… but for the PERSON to see if it’s real.   -- slade       To all: I would be interested in reading how it is that you (all) reconcile Romans 4:3-5 with James 2:21-24.   I am not interested in starting a big fight.   But there are a number of traditions represented on this list.   A good opportunity for me to consider this variety of opinion.  John   Hi John,   This has been a major "controversial question" for some traditions... In Romans  4:3-5 Paul writes in part "righteousness is counted to him that works not but believes on Him that justifies the ungodly" and James says "faith if it has not works is dead, being alone; Jas 2:24 You see how by works a man is justified and not by faith only?"  Both use Abraham for an example so how are these seemingly opposite positions reconciled?   It is important to understand what God the Holy Spirit (rather than traditions) means when He uses these terms - because scripture must be interpreted in the light of other scripture... Works in Strongs is 2041 ergon from ergo: act, deed, doing, labor, work.  So what is a "dead" work?  Hebrews 6:1 and Hebrews 9:14 tells us that they need to be repented of up front, right at the beginning, so that we are able to serve the "living God" with a clean conscience. by acting in faith like Father Abraham whose faith was counted to him for righteousness long before the law of Moses or the Cross of Jesus Christ.   Abraham was justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son - but God apparently knew his faith was the saving kind long before this. What makes the difference?  Everyone has faith in something.  Both fear and faith are spiritual, both project into the future and both demand to be fulfilled so there will be some (works) or corresponding actions.  What makes the difference is where our faith rests.  People who believed the prophets of doom who spoke about Y2K had some corresponding actions - they stored up food, batteries etc..  Abraham who believed God, went to Mt. Moriah willing to sacrifice the child of promise because his faith rested in the fact that God was able to raise him up again.   We recently discussed 1 Peter 1:20 on TT.  I would like to point out here that God never deals with a committee.  He always spoke to individuals and this is true for Job, Joseph, Noah, Jonah Abraham and Moses; none of whom had anyone to check it out with.  These men were led by the Spirit of God as we are supposed to be in Christ.  Sometimes I wonder if we are in danger of worshipping the Jewish culture rather than the God of the Promise made to Abraham.  Gentiles are not second class citizens folk. Abraham was a Chaldean, Enoch was not a Jew, Job was not a Jew and Noah was not a Jew.  Jesus died for all men and the Holy Spirit speaks ALL languages ... The Word of God is not bound.   SO FAITH WITHOUT THE RIGHT CORRESPONDING ACTION IS DEAD OR WORTHLESS.   Grace and Peace, Judy