RE: [TruthTalk] Republican or Democrat

[ShieldsFamily]

I think that one thing being left out of the equation below is that since Messiah came we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which now makes it POSSIBLE for Believers to obey the Law, if they so choose.  What do you think of that? Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Slade Henson Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 3:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Republican or Democrat   Paul says that if you break one segment of the law, you have broken all. Peter says no Jew has ever been able to keep the whole thing,  The Bible makes it clear that the law cannot save us, only condemn us.   Peter said no Jew was able to acquire his own salvation; you have misunderstood. Why would you say that it can only condemn us? Is that the only purpose you see in it? Funny. God said it was our righteousness! God said that when the other nations would see these commandments and be amazed and say "What a wise nation is this who has such wonderful commandments and their God dwells among them.   It also tells us that the law was given specify to the Children of Israel, no one else.   You are partially right. The commandments are ONLY for the children of God. To complete this idea, when someone comes to faith, are they grafted into Israel? The question then becomes, " Why should I try to keep a law that was not only not meant for me, but a law that even those that it was meant for could not keep."  I would be doing something both unnecessary and impossible.   This logic is circular and is far below you, Terry. Reread Luke 1:6 and Deuteronomy 30:11-14 again. Do you see how these two passages do not contradict each other yet they call you a liar? I can see why you, being Jewish, might try to keep some of the traditions in order to keep peace in the family, but to keep them because you feel that they are  necessary for salvation makes no sense to me.   I do not keep them in order to keep peace in the family. I do it out of love and respect for my God and Messiah who said, "If you love me keep my commandments." I am unable to separate the commandments like fishermen catch and release fish. If God the Father said something in the Older Testament Scriptures and Messiah said something in the Newer Testament, I believe they came out of the same mouth.   Those laws were not there in the beginning, and they are not here now.   What part of "perpetual commandment" and "commandment throughout your generations" do you not understand? Do you need me to list them for you or can I trust in the accuracy of your concordance?   They were here for a time, to show you that you cannot possibly keep them and to show that without a Savior you are totally lost.   I must insist that you stop contradicting Scripture. Please read Luke 1:6 and Deuteronomy 30:11-14 once again. However, I will agree with your last phrase ,"without a Savior you are totally lost."   You cannot save yourself.  That is what Jesus found so frustrating about most Pharisees.  They were SELF righteous and needed no Savior.   Save myself? You are comparing colors and tastes. Where do you get the idea the Pharisees were self righteous and needed no Messiah?   They could do it by keeping the law.   You don't seem to understand that in the Jewish mindset, one did not NEED to keep the Teachings of Moses as a substitution for a Savior. They are God's chosen People. WHY do they need to do anything when it's guaranteed anyway? If there is anything you understand from our dialogues, please know that it is impossible for the Chosen People to misinterpret Scripture to read that they MUST keep Torah as a substitute for a suffering Messiah.   People who believed this did not just stumble into sin.  Some of them wallowed in it, and got so far off course as to end up  sacrificing their own children to idols.  The law said "don't worship another god, and the law said don't murder, but people under the law did both on many occasions, so it is certainly no guarantee that living under a bunch of rules will do anything except show you how sorry a bunch of people can be.    SO WHAT!! SO WHAT!!! Your inability and your unwillingness to submit to God's rules does not make His Just Teachings less significant. However, be assured that when the books are opened during the Great White Throne Judgment, your deeds since the recognition of Messiah will be compared to Torah. How do you think you will fare? I pray you do better than I will.   Even King David, who loved the law, committed adultery and murder, so where is the benefit?  Why cling to something that is no longer useful?  Why not adopt the two commandments that Jesus gave every believer?   Are you so much greater than David? He was a man after God's own heart. If only you [and I] were HALF the man he was. Again, you have fallen prey to that judgmental attitude so prevalent in Christianity. By concentrating on David's weaknesses, you artificially elevate your dreary walk with Messiah. Instead, may I suggest you compare the time you spend walking the high road with David's so you can see just how far you need to go to reach the dangling ends of his shoelaces? I know this is the raving of a madman to both you and Jeff, but I am trying to understand why Jesus is not enough for you as He is for me.  What am I missing?  How in the world can I get you to see what I see as a great truth?   Why do you think that? Yeshua is all I need to gain entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven. What you are missing and what you are unable to see is that out of LOVE and ADORATION for the God of Avraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the only reason I keep the commandments. Interesting concept, isn't It. The reason Slade LIVES is because Messiah loved him first and died for him. In response, the Newer Testament tells me, "If you love me, keep my commandments." This, in my opinion, includes them all. Messiah's culmination of the commandments into two is a completely misunderstood concept to you. In a future email, I will attempt to explain it to you. I must prayerfully request the Holy Spirit to open your heart to what I write. I am not trying to win an argument with either of you.  I am simply concerned that you cannot seem to comprehend something so basic.   Thank you for your concern, Terry. Likewise, we are concerned for you because you cannot seem to grasp something so basic. Terry slade     -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Sunday, 10 October, 2004 14.16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Republican or Democrat    Paul says that if you break one segment of the law, you have broken all.  Peter says no Jew has ever been able to keep the whole thing,  The Bible makes it clear that the law cannot save us, only condemn us.  It also tells us that the law was given specifly to the Children of Israel, no one else.  The question then becomes, " Why should I try to keep a law that was not only not meant for me, but a law that even those that it was meant for could not keep."  I would be doing something both unecessary and impossible. I can see why you, being Jewish, might try to keep some of the traditions in order to keep peace in the family, but to keep them because you feel that they are  necessary for salvation makes no sense to me.  Those laws were not there in the beginning, and they are not here now.  They were here for a time, to show you that you cannot possibly keep them and to show that without a Savior you are totally lost.  You cannot save yourself.  That is what Jesus found so frustrating about most Pharisees.  They were SELF righteous and needed no Savior.  They could do it by keeping the law.  People who believed this did not just stumble into sin.  Some of them wallowed in it, and got so far off course as to end up  sacrificing their own children to idols.  The law said "don't worship another god, and the law said don't murder, but people under the law did both on many occasions, so it is certainly no guarantee that living under a buch of rules will do anything except show you how sorry a bunch of people can be.  Even King David, who loved the law, commited adultry and murder, so where is the benefit?  Why cling to something that is no longer useful?  Why not adopt the two commandments that Jesus gave every believer? I know this is the raving of a madman to both you and Jeff, but I am trying to understand why Jesus is not enough for you as He is for me.  What am I missing?  How in the world can I get you to see what I see as a great truth? I am not trying to win an argument with either of you.  I am simply concerned that you cannot seem to comprehend something so basic. Terry