Re: [TruthTalk] Read it and weep!

Wed, 06 Oct 2004 08:07:08 -0700

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This exchange is sad no, funny...no, sad....no humorous..it's what it is-the community of faith in dialogue..no wonder pagans are easier to speak with (with is a preposition)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: October 06, 2004 10:39
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Read it and weep!

In a message dated 10/6/2004 1:05:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Of course I believe the Spirit had a role in giving us the Bible.   That is not the point.  


If we have a Spirit that tells us what we need to know,  why do we need the bible?   Look at what is being said.    It is like me writing a letter of instruction to my children on what to do with the house when the wife and I are on vacation and then telling them, "if you have a problem with the letter, don't worry, I will calling you several times a day and making it clear as to what I want done."  There is no point in my writing the letter if I am going to suerintend their handling of the letter.   Not to mention that this teaching results in the believer having to say that his/her interpretation is right because it is inspirited.     

John


Izzy, you have choosen to ignore my comment above.  In fact, I believe that you admit that you do not know why God gave us the Bible and the Holy Spirit as you understand Him.   But let's look at your posted reply, shall we?







John, You will have to ask God why He gave us both the Bible and the Holy Spirit to understand it, but He obviously thought we needed both. Yes He did.   Donât you? I canât believe you even asked the question. You can't believe that I have questioned the modern day doctrine of Divine and Inspired Interpretation?   So are you now thinking that one or the other is not necessary? How could you have possibly come to this conclusion?  I believe in both.   Each works in their own way to bring about my spiritual maturity.   Have the liberal theologians convinced you that the Bible is not really pertinent, or the Holy Spiritâs understanding? I do not question that the Spirit gives us understanding - it is, in part, that which gives us the mind of God.  But I do question the claim that this process includes anything that could be called "Divinely Inspired Interpretations."  Do you think that those who do not have the Holy Spiritâs indwelling can understand the Bible?  Of course.  Are you saying that one who is not yet committed to Christ should just wait for a preacher to come around and explain it all to him?   Remember when I lamented that I was in logic Hell?   The lament continues.  Are you sure you are born again and have received the Holy Spirit? As I have told others who show conerem about my salvation walk with God  --  if I told you all that God has done for me, you would be jealous.  I do appreciate the concern, seriously.   When all the dust settles after a real knock down drag out here on TT,  we all should be concerned for the spiritual safety of the others.  Thank you.   If so, I do not understand the questionâplease explain precisely what confuses you. Izzy  PS Please read the verses below seriously.

 

I Cor 2: 1   And when I came to you, brethren, I (1) did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you (2) the [1] testimony of God.


This does not mean that he did not use words to communicate his proclaimation. 


2   For I determined to know nothing among you except (3) Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
3   I was with you in (4) weakness and in (5) fear and in much trembling,
4   and my message and my preaching were (6) not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of (7) the Spirit and of power,
5   so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on (8) the power of God.


One of my great loves is the preaching of the Gospel of Christ.  And I mean, in front of people handing out the Living Word.   I don't  do this much any more and that is a source of great frustration to me.   Why do I miss the pulpit so much?   Precisely because of what is expressed in verses 3 and 4.   I prepare  a "lesson" with a vengenance.   Word studies, meditations and prayer.   But this does not give me the power of persuasion.   It only gives me what to say.  It does not give me the power of a Living Word presentation.  If I am able to focus on what forces me to be humble, to be resolute as a minister, to be one who is presenting as if the very oracles of God were on his lips   (it is His message, not mine) then my message will have an opportunity to be what I intend  --   and that only works if my intentions or identical to God's.  I believe that most ministers know exactly what I am talking about.   It is the only appraoch to effective pulpit ministry.   I believe that this is what Paul references in 3 and 4 above.



6   Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are (9) mature; a wisdom, however, not of (10) this age nor of the rulers of (11) this age, who are (12) passing away;
7   but we speak God's wisdom in a (13) mystery, the hidden wisdom which God (14) predestined before the (15) ages to our glory;
8   the wisdom (16) which none of the rulers of (17) this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified (18) the Lord of glory;


Please note that Paul is not referencing the Bible.   He is talking about the spoken word.   Also, please not that the wisdom of the spoken word is not received by all, not even all CHristians !!!   It is the mature who best understand.

9   but just as it is written,
          "(19) THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD,
          AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN,
          ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."
10   [2] (20) For to us God revealed them (21) through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the (22) depths of God.
11   For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the (23) spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.


Because of verse 6, we know that this Godly knowledge is the tied to the maturing process.   It is providencial in nature, not miraculous. 



12   Now we (24) have received, not the spirit of (25) the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13   which things we also speak, (26) not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.


Taught through the process of spiritual growth.  Sometimes, in live discussions or even on this forum, I have backed off a particular argument for fear of destroying the "weaker" faith of another.   I have started an explanation only to realize that the person's faith is so tied to what he/she believes that I dare not continue the discussion.   Better they be wrong but with faith than to be effectively confronted while losing their faith.  


14   But a (27) natural man (28) does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are (29) foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
15   But he who is (30) spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
16   For (31) WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But (32) we have the mind of Christ.


When I was seventeen, it was a very good year  -- but I knew next to nothing about my Lord in comparision to where I am today.    Ditto for all on this forum.  

Hopefully this helps. 

Thank you for your concern, my dear. 

John  --  still a believer

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