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Yes indeed, you must be 'born from above'. What
I'm saying and, what you've just said, I'd suggest, are not antithetical (in
reality...though in your way of thinking they are). Does anyone out there
agree?
jt: The reason they
are 'antithetical' in my thinking is because you transpose the ALL from
the first Adam to the second. Yes, in Him (the first Adam) all die but only
those "found to be in Christ at his 2nd coming" have been made alive. (and
this would include those who have died in the Lord before that event).
I see no validation at all for your "incarnation"
doctrine in scripture.
'I have no idea what you..mean by this
question' Let me attempt another approach. 'As in Adam ALL...so (implied)
in Christ ALL..Initially I'm not asking for agreement but, understanding.
Do you 'catch my drift" now?
jt: I think
so - So far as the first Adam is concerned we have no choice, when we are
born into this world we are by nature his seed. As for the second
Adam we must be born again to be a part of his
inheritance or in Him.
Jt:A simple question:WHO among all of HK
over all time IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE INCARNATION LIFE DEATH
RESURRECTION AND ASCENSION OF CHRIST?
jt: Those who love the darkness so
much that they refuse to come to the light. These people are
opposing themselves and are still in captivity.
A second and, related question:Is the
Incarnation inclusive or exclusive?
jt: I have no idea what it is you hope to
learn or what you mean by the above question.
In your response kindly include something
of your own words along with quotations which you believe may only be
understood as you understand them.
This is your reconstituted gospel Lance.
The gospels teach that when we receive Christ, what we receive is
the "power to
become a son of God" (John 1:12) ...
however, when we access and travel the broad road, everyone gets
in.
If your claim below is true then why do his
disciples question Jesus over why he didn't reveal certain things to
the whole world and why the deeper meaning of his parables are
hidden.... Whose power would you say Arafat was walking in?
What was the fruit of his life? Do you have any evidence at
all to show that he has repented and turned from this
wickedness? You and Jonathan err when you try to superimpose
the natural upon the spiritual ie the father son thing. So long as
the son was in the pigpen he was dead so far as the father was
concerned. Selah! Judyt
You AND everyone else are included in
the Second Adam, Jeshua (Jesus the Christ, Immanuel-God with us).
No one (not any one) is EXcluded in the
life, death, resurrection, ascension and ongoing mediatorial work
of He who loves us with an everlasting love.
Jonathan
Hughes wrote:
Terry
your jabs at me have been increasing lately. Perhaps I
have been more irreverent than usual or else there is
something going on in your own heart. I believe invoking
mercy for Arafat would be exactly what Jesus Christ would
do.
It is
easy to attempt to convey my theology (God-talk) in one
sentence saying everybody is automatically saved. It of
course does not do justice to the many times I have explained
my position. I do believe that everyone is included in
Jesus Christ. I also have made it quite clear that this
can be rejected. To confuse you I then go on to state
that those who chose to reject Jesus Christ are still
included. I use the example of how my son may say to me,
�Daddy, I hate you, I reject you, I disown you and will have
nothing to do with you.� I may reply �Ok, but you will
always be my son.� My son can never get rid of his
sonship because it is something I have bestowed on him
regardless of whether he accepts or rejects it. In the
same way if God chooses to bestow grace upon us the grace
stands regardless of our acceptance or rejection. I
believe that the grace of Jesus Christ is that
scandalous.
JBH You
are probably right Jonathan. Sometimes I do get
critical. Guess it is the old man refusing to stay
dead. I especially tend to err in this way when someone
make no sense to me. The message I keep getting from you
is that no one is lost, we are all God's children. I hope
I am misunderstanding you because that is pure unadulterated
fiction.
If I were the only one getting this
message I would chalk it up to my inability to understand, but I
am certain several in this group and a couple here at home get
the same impression.
If this is not what you are
preaching, sit down and write it so that a five year old can
understand. Maybe there is some hope of us understanding
if you keep it "duh" simple.
Terry
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