Re: [TruthTalk] 613 Commands

[Judy Taylor]

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:40:23 -0500 "Jeff Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jeff in red: So then, it is true that you DO NOT understand. Nor do you want to understand.   jt: No, the above is false. God has given me the understanding I need and when I need more I ask Him to show me. I have been born again and spirit filled; I hear the voice of the Chief Shepherd and I follow Him.   One point here, God's Feasts, Gods holy days are not Levitical Laws they are for everyone who claims to be a child of God. Jews and Gentiles.    jt: The feasts and days were given to Israel as a Nation under the law of Moses.   Did God ordain christmas or easter? NO! They are not Biblical holy days (holidays), they are manmade. Those are the holy days-doctrines of men God wants us to move away from.  I suggest that you get and study a book, Celebrate the Feasts, of the old testament in your own home or church, by Martha Zimmerman.  This book is by a Christian author and I think the back cover note will explain much,   jt: I understand that Christmas, Easter, Halloween etc. are not ordained of God. They are secular feast days and today we all live in a secular society.        "The great religious feasts as described in the Old Testament and Jewish tradition are full of spiritual truth presented in the New Testament...  The author carefully researched these festivals... She then prepaired the complete information necessary to recreate the symbolic representations of Christ as found in the holy celebrations of the Old Testament..."    jt: I understand that the law was given as a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ and it is my personal belief that the law is holy, it is spiritual, and it is good if taught correctly.    Nothing has been done away with,   jt: What are the ordinances against you that were nailed to the cross?   but you fail to see that the writer of Hebrews is explaining that everything known to the reciepients of that letter is but a SHADOW of what is to come.    jt: The writer of Hebrews is explaining that the earthly (ie Levitical) was but a shadow of that which was to come and is now here which is the heavenly.  Have you read Hebrews Chapters 9 and 10?   So just who were the reciepients of the letter to the Hebrews?     jt: All of Paul's epistles are written to and for the Church in every generation.   Messianic Jews, who not only understood the author but didn't cornfuse it into something it is not.  If that is a shadow, then where is the real McCoy?    jt: The real McCoy is Jesus who has broken down the wall of partition. God's people are now "one new man" and headquarters is in heaven Jeff.   I think in our lifetime we will see the temple rebuilt. There can be no shadow without the real item existing to cast a shadow.   jt: The real has never gone anywhere Jeff. There has always been a real in heaven, the shadow was given as a temporary measure until in the fulness of time the real was made manifest.   Judy you miss the point on a lot of truth here because you confuse Torah and Talmud, the doctrine of Messiah and the doctrines of men, your own misunderstandings and Biblical truth.   jt: I don't confuse any of the above Jeff. I just don't give it all the exact same significance as you do. The temple may be rebuilt in Jerusalem temporarily but for what purpose?  So that the antichrist can be revealed? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor I don't believe God's moral law has gone anywhere - It is the Levitical law that was nailed to the cross because it has been completed in Christ. We no longer need Levitical priests, we have a Great High Priest who sits on the right hand of God the Father in the heavenlies.  What point do you believe I have missed that has to do with the cross?  Judyt   On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:14:45 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Judy, If you think �It is finished!� referred to God�s law you have missed the whole point of the Cross. Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor   Hi Izzy & all, Thank you for asking.  I'm not very often stuck for words but these 613 Commands along with reaction on TT to the death of Arafat have left me (momentarily) speechless.  To begin with I can't see any wisdom in resurrecting Levitical Law which was nailed to the cross when Jesus cried "It is finished!"  In Galatians Paul tells us that adding Jewish law to the finished work of Christ will cause one who began in the Spirit to "fall from grace" - so how did we get here??   As for the demise of Arafat .. the wisdom of God says "Because I have called, and ye refused. I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; but ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would have none of my reproof; I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; when your fear cometh as desolation and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.  Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me; for that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord; they would have none of my counsel; they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices..For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them..."   True, it's not God's will that any should perish but Arafat made his own bed, and he lived by his own rules. I certainly don't envy his end but agree with Izzy that the world is better off without him.  George W. may not meet the expectations of some but at least he was not deceived by that evil little man and refused to invite him to this country so long as he was involved with terrorism.  What a chaotic funeral that was .. and now the search for the billions he has siphoned and hidden.   Judyt       On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 07:26:07 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Judy, we haven�t heard from you since Monday.  I hope all is well. Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor The late Pinchas Lapide once said: "The 'Old[er] Law' remains, the New[er] Testament does not bring any New Law but applies the old[er] in light of the fulfillment of all salvation history. Even in the Sermon on the Mount, Yeshua brings no new Law, but shows how in each situation, the Old[er] Law is to be fulfilled radically in view of the Kingdom of God which is immeasurably close." jt: The Kingdom of God is here.  Jesus introduced it .. remember? He said "But if I cast out demons by the finger of God then the kingdom of God has come upon you" (Luke 11:20). The Church is supposed to be doing the same works today and is in some quarters...