RE: [TruthTalk] Can God's covenants be broken?

[ShieldsFamily]

Here, Lance. Does this revive your memory? Izzy   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 12:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Can God's covenants be broken?   I would 'suggest' that God's covenant with Abraham is, in reality, unilateral and, thereby further 'suggesting' that such an covenant does exist. You are speaking of a bi-lateral covenant. God in Christ completes what some have called the 'double move' (God toward man & Man toward God). No 'conditions' are attached to a unilateral covenant. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: November 16, 2004 12:53 Subject: [TruthTalk] Can God's covenants be broken?     > Lance wrote: > > If a covenant is unilateral, can it be broken? >  > A covenant is an agreement between parties and there are always expected > obligations on both sides.  If not, then there is no real covenant.  One > party simply does something for someone else without any agreement between > them.  So I would suggest that there is no such thing as a unilateral > covenant. >  > The various covenants found in the Hebrew Scriptures indicate that they > could be broken by man.  Consider the following two passages: >  > Abrahamic Covenant- > Genesis 17:14 > (14) And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not > circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my > covenant. >  > Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses covenants- > Jeremiah 11:10 > (10) They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which > refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the > house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made > with their fathers. >  > Therefore, Terry's concept of the covenant being broken and therefore > setting aside the "forever" clauses is valid.  The idea that there is a new > covenant in Christ, a different covenant with different elements, is > certainly a valid consideration here. >  > As an example, consider the sabbath commandment.  When it was established, > God expected them to keep it forever, for a "perpetual covenant." >  > Exodus 31:15-18 > (15) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, > holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall > surely be put to death. > (16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the > sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. > (17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six > days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and > was refreshed. > (18) And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him > upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the > finger of God. >  > But when Israel sinned and broke the covenant, God told Israel to stop > keeping the sabbath. >  > Isaiah 1:10-18 > (10) Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of > our God, ye people of Gomorrah. > (11) To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the > LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; > and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. > (12) When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, > to tread my courts? > (13) Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the > new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is > iniquity, even the solemn meeting. > (14) Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a > trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. > (15) And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: > yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of > blood. > (16) Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before > mine eyes; cease to do evil; > (17) Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the > fatherless, plead for the widow. > (18) Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins > be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like > crimson, they shall be as wool. >  > Peace be with you. > David Miller. >  >  > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org >  > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. >      ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.