RE: [TruthTalk] The Outside of the Cup

[Slade Henson]

Kay in purple: -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Monday, 06 December, 2004 14.20 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Outside of the Cup I truly want to thank you Kay for at least giving me an inkling as to how your thought process works.  As I suspected, we see things a good bit differently.  Some comments on this below. Who gets your tithe?   The orphan, the widow, the priest, and the foreigner among us. This would be the rabbi or pastor, the poor family needing assistance, the homeless man who hangs out on Falkenburg and Causeway, the family whose house burnt down, hosting a meal for congregation members, baking for the elderly couple. I am all for taking care of those who are trying, but unable to meet their own needs, but consider this to be a love gift rather than a tithe since no fixed percentage is involved.  As for the rabbi and the preacher, neither qualify as a go between between God and myself and I am not obligated to provide them with my earnings.  Jesus is our high priest, and I am a priest just as surely as any doctor of divinity, so their services are unneeded and unnecessary.  So, you're saying your pastor shouldn't get paid for his work? You shouldn't help the building pay its bills in order to provide you the service of teaching? It doesn't have to be earnings...it could be gifts of food from your garden, from your wife making jams and jellies from the berry bushes, it can be a tithe of our time; helping out in the nursery, attending the church cleaning day, making food for the sick and bringing it to them, going to see them in the hospital. Tithes have much more than just a monetary gift. Why offer an ox or a dove when Jesus paid it all?   There is no temple. There was no sacrifice for intentional sin. Jesus paid that. That is one of the points I have been trying to make.  No temple, no priests, no way to keep any law that required that location or those middle men.  The temple laws are not current today. However, we do know the temple will be up and running again someday. One interesting thing: we see from Revelation, I believe, that the antichrist will stop the temple sacrifices. Okay, so that means there will be a sacrifice system in place for him TO put a stop to. (Understanding that this is something to happen in the future.) So, if the antichrist stops the sacrifices, and we agree with him, are we then agreeing with the antichrist? What does wearing a beard have to do with the inside of the cup?   Has to do with obedience. I'll buy that, but it seems sort of silly to me to keep one rule when you cannot keep them all, and breaking one makes you guilty of breaking all.  You cannot keep the ones that are not possible to keep. It is not possible to keep the temple ordinances as there is no temple. But, unless you've been burned and have scar tissue, I think you can grow something on your face.  I can show you in the Bible where the law was for Jews.  Can you show me where it is for me, today?   Yep. Look up "foreigner". Also look up Romans and the grafting in principle. Speaking of Romans, I like 10:4 Christ is the end of the law. Let's see...if we continue on verse 5 says: For Moses writes concerning the righteousness that comes from the law, that "the person who does these things will live by them". Hmm...what things? Oh, the law, because that's what we're talking about that Moses wrote about concerning the law. The person who does them will live. Cool. What happens if you don't? The opposite of life is....?? I wonder.... I like to continue on in Romans 10 to verse 21...All day long I held out my hands to a people who kept disobeying and contradicting." Wow. That's HOPE. And, believe it or not, grace. Whoa, dude, that's like really cool.   Example: Num 15:15 '{As for} the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns {with you,} a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD. Num 19:10 'The one who gathers the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening; and it shall be a perpetual statute to the sons of Israel and to the alien who sojourns among them.  Since I am not now, nor have I ever been a foriegner among the Jews, these are not a valid arguements.  I would suspect that the vast majority of Christians would be in the same position.   Whose God is God?  Was Jesus a Gentile?   And that's just two of them. There are a bunch more, including "perpetual statute, throughout all your generations", forever commandment, etc. If breaking one law made you guilty of breaking the whole law, and if it is impossible to keep the whole law today, is the old covenant void?  If not, how can you possibly please God?   That's simple....it's called Grace.  Then since we are under grace, we are not under law?  You're not understanding what's been tried to be explained to you repeatedly. "Law" is not a good translation. "Teaching" is much better. God teaches us right from wrong, holy from unholy. If we love Him, we obey Him and do what He teaches us to do. He teaches us how to worship Him, how to love Him, and how His people should live.   Thanks again Kay.  Likely we will never agree, but I appreciate your response none the less.   No problem, Terry.   Kay