[TruthTalk] Intentional sin -- the Judas factor

[Judy Taylor]

From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hey, Judy! How did YOU get around my earlier email in response to you. Also what about your answers to my questions?   Does the Bible MEAN (operative word) anything to me? Thanks once again for a kind thought on my behalf. Answer YES How do I GET AROUND THAT? There is nothing to get 'round.   jt: How about the fact that Jesus Himself said He had not lost any God had given Him other than the "son of perdition" Judas?   What is it with you, David and Iz (the dear birthday card sender).when it comes to biblical interpretation? (my way or the highway - this is a counterpart to ding dong you're wrong - I rather like that) When one comes to a conclusion other than your own please, lighten up! Don't consign those of us who see a POSSIBILITY to 'interpretation hell'     jt: I'm not consigning anyone anywhere Lance. I am saying that you are wrong about the fate of Judas. In the words of the Master he didn't make it. Sorry about that ... (check it out John 17:12 - perdition is not a different way of saying "saved") From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I've never actually identified myself as a 'rocket scientist' but, for the sake of this issue I will. Neither I nor you (nor any on TT) KNOW the eternal outcome of any. 'Any' would include Judas.   jt: Ding Dong you're wrong Lance, we can know the eternal destiny of Judas because Jesus Himself excluded him in His prayer when He told the father He hadn't lost any given Him other than the son of perdition.  How do you get around that? Doesn't God's Word mean anything to you? Must everything subject itself to 'incarnationalism'   From: ShieldsFamily I guess it takes a rocket scientist to realize there is a difference between repentance (confessing sin and turning from it), and crocodile tears (crying because you got found out and hanging yourself.)  Izzy   On Behalf Of Lance Muir JBPhillips once wrote a book, which while not great, did have a great title: 'Your God is Too Small'.   [EMAIL PROTECTED]> It means despite some misguided attempts at interpreting scripture John thinks as I do, Judas Iscariot is not neccessarily burning in hell. Judas did what he did from the heart, he loved Yeshua and in his own way was attempting to force Yeshua's hand. Did it backfire? some might say yes, but it worked according to God's plan. To me thats as it had to be.  But some have to kick the scapegoat even harder than he kicked himself. May I suggest an intense study of Jewish history? It seems lacking here!  jeff   jt: Is this the fruit of total Torah obsession Jeff?  Have you even read the New Testament?  Sure Judas did what he did from the heart - but it was a heart filled with Satan.  Read "Satan entered into him"(John 13:27). How will an 'intense' study of Jewish history change that fact and in which direction IYO was Judas trying to force Yeshua's hand? Judas was an open door for Satan anyway. By his own choice he had become a thief and extorter by stealing money from the treasury over a period of time which proved that his love of money exceeded his love for Yeshua and at the end his idol turned on him.  Sure he was sorry but he did not go in repentance to the one who could and would forgive his sin - he turned to the blind religious leaders.  Selah!   From: ShieldsFamily I repeat, John�Jesus said Judas was lost.  You can toss out all the definitions you want, but you know what Jesus meant.  Izzy Actually I don't.   I have never studied the issue.   I am not saying you are wrong  --  I am saying that "lost" does not mean "lost."   The biblical message is not that simple.  If it were,   all honest people would agree.    But there is much much more to this business of spiritual growth than meets the eye.   You know that !! John   John, wake up. Did you ever sing Amazing Grace?  Remember the words, �I once was lost, but now I�m found,�? What did that mean to you? Izzy