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Jt:What is there concerning I DO NOT.......that you
fail to apprehend? I've never met John. I do have some idea what John does in
his personal life. As to my UNANSWERED QUESTION TO YOU RECENTLY: Do you believe
similarly concerning Izzy, Slade, Kay, Jeff, Jonathan, Bill et
al?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: December 18, 2004 12:10
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Right Way To
Get To The Truth
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jt:I DO NOT HAVE THE WHOLE WORLD SAVED INCLUDING THE
DEVIL! As to the matter of John's heart, you would appear to
be the only one who has difficulty discerning this man's love for
Jeshua.
jt: Looks like my part of this was
lost in cyberspace - Lance aren't you the one who teaches that the whole
cosmos (which must include Satan since he was present at Calvary) was included
in the incarnation? As for John's heart and love for Jesus. The
Lord Himself defines what this consists of when He says "If you love me you
will DO what I say" I have no idea what John DOES in his personal life and
neither do you. All we can know is what he says by way of his
keyboard.
This response exemplifies the entire 'in the flat/in depth' hermeneutic. Judy
knows who you are John, in Christ, yet she chooses to argue over your
choice of words describing a reality you have in common with all
believers. Anytime we encounter a believer from any other Christian
Tradition we ought to be listening 'through' their
vocabulary to their heart. That's where God is looking and, so
should we. What a waste of time so many of these 'quibbles' are! They are
both silly and, foolish.
jt: Lance, when are you going
to come down from your lofty perch up there with Hermes and the rest of
the Greek gods and begin to deal with reality? I'm talking about the
'wisdom of God' and you are way out there with some 'hermeneutic' or
other. Fact is a person's heart is exposed BY rather than IN SPITE OF
the words that they speak ... So is it any wonder you have the whole
world saved including the devil.
In a message dated 12/17/2004 9:16:52 PM
Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Everyone lives what they really believe. Izzy
John responds: A
really ridiculous statement. "Lord,I believe, help me in my
unbelief." J
jt: How is
this 'ridiculous?' God's wisdom tells us that we not only live them we
speak them also for
"Out of the
abundance that fills the heart, the mouth speaks" so it is no use
proclaiming one thing publicly
and speaking
something else in private.
So you donât live your beliefs?
Izzy
John: Not always and neither do
you. Neither does the addicted, lost in his habit and
helpless to be what he really wants to be; neither the confused
and beleaguered wife who compromises to save the marriage;
or the young black boy with absolutely no guidance, lost in a sea of
racial regrets who cries in private at what he sees as his only choices;
or the gay and homely blade who is so taken by the disappointment of his
parents (in all facets of his life) that, in spite of what he
believes, his need for acceptance prevails. None
of this rises to the level of reasoned excuse for failure.
But the addicted "really wants" and thus, believes in what is noble and
right; the beleaguered wife "compromises" and thus acknowledges what she
believes to be right; the black boy who secretly weeps lives a
life that trumps what he knows is right (thus the tears); and the
gay and lonely son who is driven by guilt because, and only because, he
"knows" what he believes but is lost without a teacher (lost does not
mean lost, in this case). Tears, guilt,
compromise, restless addictions are all testaments to the possession of
truth. It is when we have so surrendered to the
flesh that we feel no guilt, shed no tears, are aware of no compromise,
and rejoice in our addictions that we are truly lost -- given over to
the flesh.
jt: Maybe
we should have first defined what it means
to "believe" Faith and belief in His Word are synonamous in
God's economy - but this has nothing to do with wants and or
needs. What you describe above is
belief/faith in the devil's lies John.
So people often do
not live as they believe, Linda.
jt: Oh but they do - God's Word says
"according to your faith so be it unto you" If the people above
first believed and then took hold of the power that proceeds from the
cross, they could be free of confusion, addiction, and perversion
because the truth acted upon makes us free.
And there are times when we meet these
people, speak what God would have us to say and it strikes at the
heart of who they really are and what they really believe and they are
"saved." That is what I am saying.
John
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