John responds: A really ridiculous statement. "Lord,I believe, help me in my unbelief." J
jt: How is this 'ridiculous?' God's wisdom tells us that we not only live them we speak them also for
"Out of the abundance that fills the heart, the mouth speaks" so it is no use proclaiming one thing publicly
and speaking something else in private.
So you donât live your beliefs? Izzy
John: Not always and neither do you. Neither does the addicted, lost in his habit and helpless to be what he really wants to be; neither the confused and beleaguered wife who compromises to save the marriage; or the young black boy with absolutely no guidance, lost in a sea of racial regrets who cries in private at what he sees as his only choices; or the gay and homely blade who is so taken by the disappointment of his parents (in all facets of his life) that, in spite of what he believes, his need for acceptance prevails. None of this rises to the level of reasoned excuse for failure. But the addicted "really wants" and thus, believes in what is noble and right; the beleaguered wife "compromises" and thus acknowledges what she believes to be right; the black boy who secretly weeps lives a life that trumps what he knows is right (thus the tears); and the gay and lonely son who is driven by guilt because, and only because, he "knows" what he believes but is lost without a teacher (lost does not mean lost, in this case). Tears, guilt, compromise, restless addictions are all testaments to the possession of truth. It is when we have so surrendered to the flesh that we feel no guilt, shed no tears, are aware of no compromise, and rejoice in our addictions that we are truly lost -- given over to the flesh.
jt: Maybe we should have first defined what it means to "believe" Faith and belief in His Word are synonamous in God's economy - but this has nothing to do with wants and or needs. What you describe above is belief/faith in the devil's lies John.
The claim was, people live what they believe. My answer was "not always." Was Samson a believer -- a man who couldn't get women off the brain, was spiteful and vengeful and died an ignoble death of revenge? What about Noah, his drunkenness and immorality with his daughters? And Abraham, when he decided to manipulate the promise of God with Ishmael? Or Jacob's deceit of his father, or Jonah's persistent refusal to do God's bidding and his anger at God's success. Or your judgmentalism or my sarcasm or ---------------- you get the point. Linda just got through reminding me that there was was none righteous, "no not one." Our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Lord. Soooooooooooooooo,,, no one is left to believe if our actions always demonstrate what we really believe and know to be true? Indefensible in my book. The only reason "confession" works is because it is a statement of regret for sins and a pronoucement that we want agreement between what we already believe and our activity. Do a word study on "confession." You will find at its root this notion of agreement.
So people often do not live as they believe, Linda.
jt: Oh but they do - God's Word says "according to your faith so be it unto you" If the people above first believed and then took hold of the power that proceeds from the cross, they could be free of confusion, addiction, and perversion because the truth acted upon makes us free.
I agree with the above but that is not in question. You are claiming that your theology is mutally exclusive of mine on this point. Not true. Reconcile the truth of my defense with the claims of thinking.
Grace to you, Judy, in sufficient measure to overcome your rebellion.
John
And there are times when we meet these people, speak what God would have us to say and it strikes at the heart of who they really are and what they really believe and they are "saved." That is what I am saying. John
Do you reject this or not?
