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Let me
guess...the Son was born on christmas day, right?? Is that the certain
day?
Where
in Scripture do you find the word trinity??
K.
Bill you have overlooked and completely negate the fact
that Jesus as God's Son was begotten on a certain day:
Phil 2:5-11 and Isa 7:14, 9:6 refer to the
incarnation when God the Word, the second person of the Divine Trinity emptied
Himself to take on a human body and redeem mankind. This was when God had
a son through Mary (Matt 1:8, 25, Luke 1:35, John 1:14) and this took
place on a certain day �THIS DAY� have I begotten thee� (Hebrews 1:5-7) and therefore we
can not say that God had a Son before this time proving that sonship in
connection with God has to refer to humanity and not to
deity.
As God the person we now know of as Jesus Christ had no beginning, was not
begotten, was not a Son, and did not come into being. He always existed as God
(Psalm 90:2, Micah 5:2, John 1:1-2, Hebrews 1:8); but as a
man and as God�s Son He was not
eternal, He did have a beginning. He was begotten - this
being at the same time Mary had a Son. Therefore
the doctrine of eternal
sonship of Jesus Christ is
irreconcilable to reason, is unscriptural and is contradictory to
itself.
Eternity has no beginning, so if He has been God from
eternity, then He could not have a beginning as God. Eternity has no reference to time, so if He was begotten �THIS
DAY,� then it was done in time and not in eternity. The word Son supposes time, generation, father, mother,
beginning, and conception - unless one is a son by creation as Adam (Luke 3:38)
and angels (Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7; Genesis 6:1-4.
Time, created, beginning, are opposites to God and
eternity and are absolutely impossible to reconcile with them. If Sonship
refers to deity, not to humanity, then this person of the Deity had a
beginning in time and not in eternity. It is plainly stated in Psalm 2:7, Acts
13:33, Hebrews 1:5, 5:5 that God had
a Son �THIS DAY� and not in eternity.
It is stated in Hebrews 1:5-7, Luke 1:36, Matthew 1:18-25 when this took
place. It was something over 1900 years ago. It had been predicted that God
would have a Son (Isaiah 7:14, 9:6, Hebrews 1:5, Matthew 1:18-25, Luke
1:32-35). When the Virgin conceived of the Holy Ghost (Matthew 1:20), this was
fulfilled, and not at any other time.
To say that God had an eternal Son would mean He had
two; but it is plainly stated that Jesus was �THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF THE
FATHER� (John 1:14, 18; 3:16-18; 1 John
4:9.
jt: He was the Word of God from the
foundation of the world. He became a
son at the incarnation when God provided Him a body. He was begotten, not made and His blood was/is the eternal
blood of the New Covenant which is non
sectarian in spite of the fact that
He was born under the law of Moses to a
young Jewish girl -
To the contrary, Judy:
As far back as God goes, the Word was God --
- "In beginning was
the Word, and the Word was with the God, and God was the
Word." (John 1.1 -- wooden literal translation)
The Word "became
flesh." (see John 1.14)
But he was always the Son; i.e., he is the
eternal Son --
- "Jesus answered,
'If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of
whom you say that He is your God.' ... Jesus said to them, 'Most
assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.'" (John
8.54,58)
- "And now, O Father,
glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You
before the world was." (John 17.5)
- "Father, I desire
that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may
behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the
foundation of the world." (John 17.24)
He was a Jew from the Seed (sperma -- Literally "sperm")
of Abraham --
- "Now to Abraham and his Seed were the
promises made. He does not say, 'And to seeds,' as of many, but as of one,
'And to your Seed,' who is Christ." (Galatians 3.16)
He was a Jew from the fruit of David's body (karpou tes
osphuos autou -- Literally the "fruit of his genitals") --
-
"Men and brethren, let me speak
freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and
his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and
knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit
of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ
to sit on his throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the
resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did
His flesh see corruption. This Jesus God has raised up, of which we
are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God,
and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He
poured out this which you now see and hear. For David did not ascend
into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at
My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your
footstool."' Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly
that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and
Christ." (Acts 2.29-36)
Judy, in all sincerity may I suggest that you not push this
one. You are treading on sacred ground. At the same time you are bordering
on denying both the full divinity of Christ and his human heritage.
Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of the Father, the Word of God; he is also
fully human, born of a Jewish woman of the line of David, Jacob, Isaac,
and Abraham. Please reconsider what you are saying. This one is too
important to deny.
Sincerely, your brother,
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004
9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of
Christ
jt: He was the Word of God from the foundation of
the world.
He became a son at the incarnation when God
provided Him a body.
He was begotten, not made and His blood was/is
the eternal blood
of the New Covenant which is non sectarian in
spite of the fact that
He was born under the law of Moses to a young
Jewish girl -
He was the Son of the Father, the Word who
was with God and was God "in beginning," and when he appeared in a flesh
body, he had Jewish blood running through his veins.
Bill
jt: Actually He was
the Word of the Father, who, in the fullness of time, appeared among
us in a flesh body.
I AM attempting to get rooted in That Mind! Was
Messiah a Greek or Hebrew? - slade
jt: Slade and Lance, is there any good
reason why we can not forget about both Greek and
Hebrew
mindsets and begin to focus upon and
discuss "the mind of Christ"? jht
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