----- Original Message ----- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] The Eternal Son?
David wrote > Do you see how the phrase, "this day have I begotten thee," suggests a particular day when the Son was begotten? Do you see how this passage speaks about Christ becoming flesh and taking his place as king among men? BT: I can see how one might draw this conclusion, yes. But I cannot see how he or she would continue to hold to it once the greater things of God a made apparent. There is so much to discuss here, David, and so little time to do it -- in writing. There is a huge realm which opens to us once we begin to apprehend the triune nature of God. We live in an opportune time to discover this, as there is a great resurgence of Trinitarian Theology these days. I suppose, however, that one cannot even see the door to that realm from the position you have taken. I do not know how to make it visible to you except to continue to write with the limited time we have. May God give us patience to see our way through that door. _____________________________ David > When Gabriel spoke to Mary in Galilee, he said that because of what was happening to her, Jesus would be called, the Son of God. Luke 1:35 (35) And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. So it appears from the language here that the human birth of Jesus, being a Divine act of God in the womb of a pure virgin, is the cause for this person to be called, "the Son of God." BT: No, David, I would say it is "also" a reason for this person to be called the Son of God :>) _________________________________ David > Are there any verses anywhere in all of Scripture that speak of Jesus being the Son of God prior to this event? BT: Slade's answer suffices on this one. __________________________________ David > What would be wrong with the viewpoint that Jesus always was God, and became the Son of God when born of Mary? BT: Please read my post to Judy, which I sent maybe an hour ago. I believe I address some of the problems presented by this view in that post. __________________________________ David > If Jesus was begotten the Son of God at some point in eternity past, does this not mean that he was created on a particular day? How do you overcome this difficulty? BT: No, David, it does not mean that he was begotten of a particular day. He is eternally begotten; that is, he is the Son because he is the Son of the Father. The Father is the Father because he is the Father of the Son. I believe the Patristics explained it something on the order of the Father begets from eternity; the Son is eternally begotten. They said something like, there was a time when the Father was not the creator, but there was never a time he was not the Father. And the was a time when the Son was not incarnate, but there was never a time he was not the Son. I'll refresh myself with some reading, if you would like, and try at some point to explain this better. __________________________________ David > The fundamentalist MacArthur seems to have cowered to religious political pressure and simply calls it a mystery. Do you have a better, more rational answer? BT: David, I do not have a problem with mystery. I have a problem with mystery being viewed as an unsolvable problem. Mystery refers to that which cannot be exhausted, not to that which cannot be apprehended. The more one looks into the great mysteries of God the greater his understanding of God becomes, yet he is at no point closer to exhausting the potential for greater understanding. I am no great fan of MacArthur. There is much about his theology and more importantly his presentation of that theology with which I disagree. But I am not convinced that he is cowering to religious political pressure here, nor am I persuaded that he is proposing a God-of-the-gaps-type solution with his use of the term mystery here. I kind of think that he is referring to the same thing that I have just addressed. I'll talk to you later, David. I am tired. Merry Christmas. Bill ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
