Hi David, You are correct in recognizing that I have illustrated a major difference in our hermeneutic. I begin with Christ, you begin with syntax. I have an overarching guide to interpretation (it must be consistent with who God is as He reveals Himself in the Person of Jesus Christ). You have texts to compare one with another. Whoever makes the best argument wins. The message of Christ is detached from the Person of Christ.
God did not first give us the law. God first gave His Son who was slain before the foundation of the world. According to the first chapter of Ephesians it was always His plan. God demonstrated His grace prior to the law. Read the first few verses of Exodus 20. God first talks about who He is, the One who delivers. Then He gives the law. Grace (fully manifested in the Person of Christ) always comes before the law. Even creation began with Christ in and through Whom all things were made. Romans also begins with Christ. Read the first five verses. They set up the entire letter, the prism of all that Paul says in the following 16 chapters. Repentance and faith are not so easily divided as repentance is a result of faith, or an exercise of faith. I think you see repentance as a work that is a condition for faith. Thankfully, I believe that God sees repentance as a response to faith. I used to hold the exact same hermeneutic as you David. Begin with the problem and move to the cure. God has been gracious in helping me see that I am to fix my eyes on Christ, the hope of glory. It is when we take our eyes off Christ and create doctrines that are detached from Him that we get into trouble. It is a dualistic way of thought to detach God's message from His Person. Lance gave you a quote on Friday by James Houston: "What we realize is that behind this lies the whole temptation of the mind to control. But the nature of theology is that it should be receptive rather than controlling, open rather than grasping; a matter of delight rather than a matter of mastery. Grasping, controlling, and mastery are faster and seem surer. They are the shortcut to truth, but they produce a reduced vision of the truth. So always be suspicious of theological success." This is an amazing quote as it highlights our desire to control even when it comes to our theology. To step out and have Christ dictate what our theology will be, to submit our thoughts to Him, to allow Him to use scripture to point us to the truth held in Him is a very humbling experience. It is Jesus that masters us, not us mastering Him. It is far easier to prooftext, compare one scripture with another, and use the Bible to promote our desire for control. I think this happens constantly and is displayed everyday (by myself as well) on this forum. My hermeneutic illustrates a desire to set aside the scriptural logjams and to allow God to continue the work He has for us. It is simple to prove anything with the Bible. What is difficult is to demonstrate that one's proof comes from the heart of God. Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me Jonathan wrote: > Starting with sin and moving towards Christ > is never the answer. Starting with Christ and > defining sin in the light of who He is, is the answer. I think you are hitting on a major difference in which we approach humanity and his relationship to Christ. I certainly understood your maze analogy, but I'm not convinced that it applies to this situation. Here is why. God himself first gave us the law. I see that as starting with the sin problem. Later he revealed Christ. Even when Christ came, he first sent a forerunner, someone who pointed out sin and called for repentance. Jesus too, in his message, started with "repent" and then moved toward discussing the kingdom of God. Even Paul in his letter to the Romans, begins with the sin problem in Romans 7 and moves on to discussing life in the Spirit in Romans 8. Your comment that I quoted above is highly reminiscent of discussions we had about Mormonism on this list. Their doctrine places repentance after faith, whereas I believe the Scriptures teach us repentance and then faith. I believe they also follow this more holistic approach that you have outlined here overall. Now please don't misunderstand me to be saying that because your belief is like Mormonism it is false. That is NOT my intention. Mormons believe many things that are absolutely 100% accurate, such as the teaching that Jesus Christ died for our sins. All I'm trying to say is that we have had some discussions about this in the past on this list, before you arrived here, and I think most of us, perhaps all except Dave Hansen, came to the conclusion that this was not the right approach. Have you ever considered that this approach you have of starting with Christ and then dealing with sin might be all wrong? Have you ever considered that this might be a reason that you have not experienced continual victory over sin yourself? Peace be with you. David Miller. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.818 / Virus Database: 556 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
