[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/8/2005 6:20:37 AM
Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John wrote > There is a very real sense, then, that
salvation is ours to loose.
I
agree with you, John. However, it is only before we have once
placed our faith in Jesus Christ that we may lose our salvation -- and
so, this may be a fairly significant HOWEVER that we will need to work
out. I do not believe the one who has heard the good news of Jesus
Christ and believed that message will ever lose his or her
salvation, because upon believing in Jesus Christ, believers receive
the gift of the Holy Spirit, who in the Power of God secures their
salvation forever; the Gift guarantees their inheritance in
Christ. Check out the wording here and see if you see what I am saying:
In [Christ] you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were
sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our
inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the
praise of His glory" (Eph 1.13-14).
Bill
At first glance, I thought Bill was actually disagreeing with my
statement -- kind of a surprise. But after reading and reviewing
the above , it does not seem that we are far apart, at all. So, I am
missing something, here.
Let me put it another way -- and with fewer words.
I have studied Romans more times than I can count. What I see there
presented by Paul, at least through the first seven chapters is a dual
theme: 1) man is a sinner and worthy of even death and 2) his (man's )
problems are solved in and through Christ.
Romans 1 -- homosexuality along with 25 other listed sins are issues
that effect all of us
(Romans 2:1ff). The kindness, forbearance and patience of
God is the soluton.
Romans 3 -- all have sinned and continually fall short of His glory.
BUT
Blessed is the man whose sins God will not take into
account. (Romans 4)
Romans 5 While we were yet hopeless
Christ died for the ungodly (v 6) {that would be all the
ungodly, I presume]
While we were yet sinners
Chrsit died for US (now there is no doubt, we are a part
of the indictment)
By the transgression of the one, the many
died
By one does the gift of grace abound to the many
Romans 6 The wages of sin is death
But the free gift results in eternal life IN Chrsit Jesus
our Lord.
Romans 7 Who will set me free from this body of death?
Thanks be to Christ
Man is connected to his Creator from the very beginning (thus, Christ's
declaration of the children -- "and such is the kingdom of
heaven"). But somewhere along the way, he (most of mankind) becomes
self absorbed ----------- the very opposite of Divine
Commonality. Along the way, man looses his way and is need of a
savior, friend, partner, Brother (The Son is that to each of us), and
Father. The Gentile in Romans 2, the one who does by nature the
things of Law without having any knowledge of the Law (?) -- that
man is not a typical picture of what God sees. God through Christ saves
this man -- based upon the commonaliy with God he demonstrates in his
righteous actions -- a mirror of his conscience (or heart) It is
clearly, the Faith of Christ that saves this man. There isn't
anything else working for him!!!
Those who do have Law, who have been presented the gospel message,
have a choice. Some are confused. Some deny the Lord and live for
self. Others "accept" Christ in their lives and live with confidence
and direction ------ having received a knowledge of the truth that
others have missed.
Can this person be lost? Well, not if he prefers Christ? Nothing can
separate us from the Lord (Romans 8) ------------------- Nothing
but our own decision to leave Him behind. I do believe we can make
that decision at any time. I believe that we can leave off good
works and serve self, even after choosing Christ. But we cannot loose
our salvation in any other venue. Sin will not separate us -- poor
doctrinal considerations will not hinder our relationship ----
judgmentalism on the part of those zealots who claim the name and feign
knowledge of Him will not strike us down. And so, I am saved until
such time as I care not to be.
How am I doing?
John
Looks like you have most of it figured out John, but as I read what you
say, I sometimes have trouble seeing a concrete statement. Please
answer this question yes or no ,based on what you now believe. If a
theif believes that Christ is his Savior, but continues to steal, Is
he saved?
Terry
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