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----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:16
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Whose Names are
Written in the Lambs Book of Life?
who is whom in this
post. The izzy part I got. Deb/Bill I might have
it. John
In a message dated 1/12/2005 7:48:06 PM
Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Taylor
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005
10:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Whose Names are Written in the Lambs Book of
Life?
BT: If your logic holds, then we had better be teaching
people their babies went to hell. That might keep them from killing the
rest of them.
Debbie: Exactly. I was trying to point out the absurdity of
it.
BT: Why are you so convinced that it rests
in the mystery of God seeing the end from the beginning? Way too Arminian
for me -- you are still waiting to get people saved. I've got news for
you: they are saved. That is the Good News: He is Jesus Christ. If a
person persistently rejects that news unto death, she SHOULD have been
struck in the head as a baby! But rest assured the responsibility for her
subsequent rejection rests squarely and totally upon her own shoulders.
Our heart bleeds for her, but she heard the Good News of Jesus Christ, and
this under the tutelage of none other than the greatest teacher in the
universe, the Spirit of God himself, and still rejected that news. What a
tragedy!
Debbie: I am not an Arminian (not that there's anything
wrong with that...). My position is actually the opposite of Arminianism.
What I meant was not really all that different from what you said last
time. When I said God sees the end from the beginning, I didn't mean
foreknowledge. I meant that the person's whole life-direction is one. And
by that I meant, if they reject the message after hearing, then they have
already been saying no to whatever light/Spirit-preparation they have
already received. If they accept it, they have already been saying yes.
Which is pretty much what you said.
BT: But it is
as great a tragedy to limp along under the weight of a gospel of a Savior, who has not
saved anyone until each one completes in the right order a specific rite
of initiation
Debbie: I agree with you
there. But I'm not satisfied with the "negative-option marketing"
plan.
BT: For the life of me, I don't get
it.
Debbie: What? My entire theology, based on one post? That's
OK. Actually, I don't get it either half the time. --Debbie
BT--
:>) -- Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Debbie Sawczak
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 7:38 PM
Subject:
RE: [TruthTalk] Whose Names are Written in the Lambs Book of
Life?
Yes, there is that problem if you press it to the logical
conclusion, isn't there? Same with the all-babies-go-to-heaven view. In
that case, best kill your kid before s/he reaches the age of
accountability, or at least ensure a good pervasive brain injury. But
no; the Heard-Not can't lose by hearing, nor the child by understanding.
I think it relates to your earlier post--God sees the end from the
beginning. Also, everyone has some knowledge or experience to respond
to. The response doesn't have to be propositional, nor intelligible to
us--only intelligible to God. (Mind you, I don't think I've figured this
out yet...)
Debbie
-----Original Message-----
From:
ShieldsFamily [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:55 PM
To:
[email protected]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Whose
Names are Written in the Lambs Book of Life?
Don't you
believe that all mankind is included in the incarnation which makes
them all headed for heaven whether or not they overcome anything.
I
underlined the portion of your statement which is a true
representation of things I've said. The second part is not accurate
and cannot be linked to what I actually believe and have stated. I am
confident (and this because I have had to defend and clarify myself so
many times) that I have written more about the potential of humans to
lose their salvation, than anyone on this list. I do not damn people
to hell, like, say, you do, but I have written many substantive words
expressing the possibility of people rejecting Christ and damning
themselves to hell. You know this, so why do you continue to
misrepresent my position?
Bill
Bill it appears
to me that your theological construct forces one to believe that the
worst thing you could do is to tell someone about Jesus Christ.
If they never hear about Jesus they are guaranteed a ticket to heaven.
If they do hear about Him and reject Him, that is the only possible
way they can be destined for Hell. So why go forth and spread
the gospel? It sounds like a terrible thing to do.
Izzy
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