On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:26:52 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DA Smithson writes:
What if I said that "free moral agency" is a problem for God -------------- who is not a free moral agent;
that His "all knowing" acclaim (a claim heeped on Him by others) is a comparative statement, His knowledge
compared to our meager share;
No doubt you've been outsourcing here John.Here is a subtle insult implying that poor old John can't come up with his ideas.jt: It's not implying anything John. I am saying that saying God is not a free moral agent does not come from His Own Word.So you don't believe God can do what He wants to even if He is God?A deliberate misrepresentation of what I believe. A better approach would be to ask.jt: You have already fallen off the high road John; "deliberate misrepresentation?" Do you ask or accuse every time youmisunderstand me?
The only thing I know of that He can't do is lie but that's me.Actually, that is not the only thing you know about God, if you know how to read, that is.jt: I don't accept everything I read about God; it all has to be examined and proved by His Own Word.Can God be taken out of existence? Can God sin? And, more germane to this discussion, can God even consider a sinful decision? Does God change His mind? And there is more..jt: No, No, No, and He has been known to change His mind in response to intercessory prayer.Why would anyone want to conjure up a god with such limitations?God's learning curve provides Him NO limitations, ultimately, but have it your way if you want.jt: But according to your belief He must be on this learning curve to have no limitations? "Where were you when he layed the foundations of the world - declare if you have understanding?"So He is not all knowing and neither is he free?The fact that he changes his mind should help to answer the first; the fact that He cannot even consider sin (cannot be tempted) should answer the latter (you know that I am talking about free moral agency, don't you?)jt: The fact that He changes His mind indicates His mercy, it does not detract from his Omnipotence.
that the flood incident is a testament to the Divine Learning Curve of the Creator'
jt: Divine learning curve? Tell me you're joking..He was about to wipe out all of Israel and start over until Moses interceded for them.
Poor God, seems like he just can't learn.Do you even have a clue as to why I used the flood incident to support my view.jt: No I don't John but then that is not unusual since you deny everything leading to this situation.And let's all understand something here: dispite Judy's plan to expose me as some kind of heretic, such is not the case. I won't go into detail -- but her plan is one that ignores my several posts declaring my relationship with God in Christ.jt: Here we go again John. I thought you had decided to take the high road and forgo the personal stuff, at least that is what I read.If we cannot examine some of our more unconventional ideas on this site, where do we do this? I would not mind someone responding, even in disagreement, who actually kinda of likes me as a brother in Christ.jt: Why would you think I don't like you John? Must I agree with everything you say to like you?
that the prophetical and applied statement of the psalmist to Christ (" .. thou hast TAUGHT me the ways of life ...... Acts 2)
is a continuance of this learning situation, perhaps even the conclusion of such on one level.
jt: You refer to Psalm 16:11 "Thou hast shown me the path of life" (Acts 2:28) - but this is not referring to Christ though the
verse before this one did; the scriptures are like that. David here is speaking for himself and Jesus is the one at God's right hand,Acts 2:25 has Peter applying the words in his sermon (from this Psalm 16) to Christ. I'll go with him, on this.jt: No, you are going with your own preconceived ideas John because Peter goes on in Verse 29 to say"Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David...." So Vs.27 refers to Christ and Vs.28 to David.
as a member of the Godhead do you really believe that he would have to learn the "path of life?"What I believe are the words of this text. You look to them through your bias (God could not possibly be learning sooooo ..) and I choose to accept what is actually said and try to solve the problem without destroy the text in question.jt: But you don't mind destroying the person of Christ Jesus who is the WAY, TRUTH, and LIFE. So why is He having to learn how to be Himself John?You have a little God and one diminished Christ if these are your thoughts John.If my God can save the likes of you and me, He is big enough, isn't He?
