David, I appreciate the time and the effort you put into this post. Note my comments in bold print.
In a message dated 1/17/2005 1:11:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John wrote:
>Since your battle over sin is finished with
>the receipt of the Indwelling Spirit --
>what remains.
I'm talking about having victory in every battle over sin, not the idea that
there is no longer ever any temptation. Battles over sin continue, just as
they did in the life of Jesus.
Our definitions for sin are different. I believe that to be the problem.
John wrote:
>Personally, I cannot answer this question
>without including my struggle concerning sin.
There is a lot of room for growth in areas that do not concern struggle over
sin. That is why I gave you the analogy about helping the homeless guy. In
my own personal life, there was a time when I would help those in need, but
really only if they showed up at my doorstep. Later in my spiritual growth,
I learned to seek out those who might need help. There was a time when I
did not take the homeless into my own home, but later I did, and five years
ago I built a guest room in my home for strangers to stay in.
To me, you have described a growing desire to pour yourself out for the hunger and is, apparently, an area of strength.
In regards to evangelism, there was a time when I did not tell anybody about
my faith. Later, I learned to share with those who would ask. I eventually
grew to a place where I looked for opportunity to share Christ. Still later
I learned to go out and pass out tracts. After that, I even knocked on
people's doors to tell them about Christ. Eventually I began to preach
Christ on street corners. All of this took time with me. I have grown to a
place now where I am comfortable boldly proclaiming Christ rather than just
share him when it is convenient. There was a time a took my lunch break to
go preach Christ at the university, but now sometimes I take the whole day
off of work to do it, and sometimes I go to considerable expense in order to
preach Christ to those who need to hear it.
Here you have equated spiritual growth with developing enough courage to preach to those who do not want to hear a preacher. I do not associate this with spiritual maturity -- actually, quite the opposite. Courage - yes; maturity -- no. I do not recall Jesus doing any "street preaching."
Another aspect is the character building that takes place when we live
rigtheously without sinning. Living godly will bring persecution. There
are many people who hate those who live right. This persecution purifies
faith in our hearts. The first time I was physically beat up for the name
of Christ, I was a little confused about it. I did the right thing and
turned the other cheek, but I was a little bit confused. I half way wanted
to beat the guy up, but the Spirit was working in me, teaching me to turn
the other cheek, and not to resist my enemy. A few years later, a man took
a baseball bat to my head. This time, I had great love in my heart for the
man. I was not confused. I knew who I was in Christ and I knew that his
hatred toward me was not really toward me but toward God. I loved him and
told him immediately that I forgave him, and I told him, "God bless you."
As I walked away from that situation, I thought about the incident years
before. The contrast in my inner self illustrated how much I had grown in
my character. I had not sinned in either situation, but in this more recent
situation, I was more mature and my faith was stronger.
David, I do not believe that you experienced physical abuse just because you lived your life differently as you seem to claim in the opening sintences. That you were able to suffer abuse without sinning is a good thing, of course -- but I suspect that this has always been true of you.
There are other areas I could go into, but I know how you like short posts.
Hopefully what I have shared gives you an idea of what is in my mind when I
talk about spiritual growth.
In the four paragraphs above, you demonstrate areas of streght, as you consider spiritual strenght. The comments do not refute what I have said previously. Spiritual growth does not preclude continued concern with those personal "defects" (read:sin) that lay the base for historical sinning.
John wrote:
>Do you include things like arrogance, pride,
>conceit, selfishness, lust and the like as sin?
Yes.
Do you understand that I consider these things to be sin?
John wrote:
>And, do you have no trace of these?
No traces? These things abound in my flesh. I must consider these things
to be dead on a daily basis. What I am talking about is the kind of
holiness that Jesus walked in.
Right here is, perhaps, where we part company. I do not understand your theology on this at all. You have achieved Uniquesness. Are you perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect?
It is one whereby temptations continue but
we have the victory. I also have noticed that there are cycles. Sometimes
it seems relatively easy and effortless to walk in righteousness. Other
times there are periods of testing, where there is an onslaught of the enemy
and one must be more careful and circumspect.
You discuss historical sins or event sins -- the kind of sin the biblical message usually includes in its discussion.
John wrote:
>Specifics David. That is how
>you will change my mind.
You only need to ask.
I did ask, previously, David and you told me that you were going to do something else. but I am glad that you changed your mind.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
