RE: [TruthTalk] concept-reality Q

Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:08:08 -0800

The Holy Spirit while not giving Revelation today will give Illumination.

Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Debbie,

I think the examples that you have given DO have an objective reality,
and that we have been given a limited view of these through the scriptures.
In these cases of "abstract reality", there is an absolute reality, i.e.,
something really happened that we call the "atonement", and there really was
(and is) a "covenant", even though we were not present when the atonement
took place, or when the covenant was sealed with Christ's blood.

We are given a limited view of the atonement and covenant via the
scriptures. Our limited view of the objective reality is in the word
pictures painted for us in the scrptures. The reality of it to us depends on
whether we trust the scriptures to be acurate. This is one reason for the
very good argument that the scriptures are infallable. If we allow them to
be fallable, then we lose our limited objective view of the reality of the
cross and the covenant. Once we allow one fact in the Bible to be false, it
casts doubt on the whole Bible, and we switch from the objective reality of
the scriptures to the subjective reality of our own whims and desires.

Some will argue that they get an additional view of things via direct
personal revelation. I trust that this is true in the case of the prophets
in the Bible, but I have never received any additional, supernatural
understanding or interpretation of the scriptures beyond what is written on
the pages of my Bible. So, I must assume that the Bible contains enough
information for me to know what God intended for me to know, and that it is
sufficient for salvation, and knowing God's will in my life.

Perry

>From: "Debbie Sawczak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To:
>Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] concept-reality Q
>Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:18:11 -0500
>
>Realities not accessible to the senses. E.g., the reality we are trying to
>think about when we say "the atonement", or "covenant" (as bw God and other
>parties). But I'm thinking I may not have given enough rigorous thought to
>my own questions. Can't do more right now--back to this later.
>
>Debbie
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Perry Locke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 3:47 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] concept-reality Q
>
>
>Debbie wrote:
>
> >My questions arising have to do with learning: How does one know how
>great
> >the variance is between one's concept and the reality, or which of two
> >concepts is "closer", especially if it's an abstract reality?
>
> What is an abstract reality? Can you give me an example so I will
>understand what you mean? Depending on what "abstract reality" means, the
>variance may be unimportant.
>
> >How does one change one's concepts in that case, if they're all one has
>by
> >which to
> >think?
>
> I think that we continually test our concepts against reality ("reality
>check"), and if they fail in some way, healthy people adjust their concepts
>to more closely match reality. Unhealthy people attempt to change reality,
>or mitigate the variance by learning to ignore or simply live with the
>variance.
>
> I have thought a lot about the idea of concepts matching reality. I
>refer
>to it as the "real" world, and our "model" of the world. It seems that he
>more closely our models match the real world, the easier it is to live, to
>understand things, to get along with people. The greater the difference,
>the
>more difficulty life becomes.
>
>Perry
>
> >
> >Debbie
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lance Muir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:31 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] What if Jesus is not God?
> >
> >
> > We think reality through concepts. The two are always at variance with
> >one
> >another. IFF you agree with this formulation then, will you submit
> >questions
> >that arise from it?
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Slade Henson
> > To: [email protected]
> > Sent: January 20, 2005 05:45
> > Subject: [TruthTalk] What if Jesus is not God?
> >
> >
> > This poses an interesting question. What do you think is the fate of
> >those who believe Jesus was just a man and not G-d?
> >
> > -- slade
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Judy Taylor
> > Sent: Thursday, 20 January, 2005 02.53
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] What is a Christian?
> >
> > jt: So you just see Mormonism as a "different church?" Has your
> >mother-in-law renounced the works of darkness, repented of following
>false
> >gods and left that system? You are not doing DaveH any favors by the
> >statement above. His soul is more important than us being 'nice' we need
> >to
> >call things what they are. If you can't see the problem then possibly
>you
> >are deceived in this area also John and need to do your homework. We
>have
> >no authority to pronounce people "saved" It has to be between them and
>the
> >Lord. all we can do is point them to "The Way" and encourage them in it -
> >We
> >can stand in faith for ourselves but until Jesus declares (at the end)
> >those
> >who belong to him - we speak presumptuously. jt
>
>
>----------
>"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>know
>how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
>http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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>
>
>----------
>"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
>http://www.InnGlory.org
>
>If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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