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A hardy AMEN on this one, John. I am confident that
others will read this and agree.
As it pertains to Judy's statement, "[Jesus] wasn't a son before the incarnation and he hasn't
been that since the resurrection," I'm sure
she made it in the heat of the moment and upon reflection would want to be able
to take some of it back. I think we should give her the freedom to do so if the
opportunity arises. Certainly the Son of God the Father is still the Son of God
the Father. How else ought we understand the Apostle's words here, written
perhaps fifty years after Jesus' resurrection? "Grace, mercy, and peace
will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus
Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. ... For many deceivers
have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the
flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. ... Whoever transgresses and
does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the
doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son" (2 Joh 3, 7,
9).
Good job, John. Don't get discouraged.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 8:58
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth as viewed
by one of the greats
In a message dated 1/28/2005 5:36:07 AM Pacific
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
To reduce this to a few easy to understand words, John, you seem
to be saying that you do not have the ability to recognize truth by
yourself. I realize that when cut down to the basics, this sounds less
than kind, but that is not what I am saying about you. It is what I
hear you saying about yourself. We all suffer from this shortcoming to
one degree or another, and we all have our own methods of dealing with our
shortcomings. Yours seems to be to seek the opinions of authors and
friends, while mine is to dig deeper into the Bible. You find that
your way works to some degree. I find that my Lord will give me all I
can grasp at the proper time. When my cup is full, He allows me to
digest that which He has given, then He pours out more. His timing is
perfect. I do not yet have all truth, but I am confident that I am
headed in the right direction. What I do have in the way of truth
gives me confidence to share what I believe with others. Put another
way, I can tell them what I believe instead of asking them what I should
believe. I believe that my way, in this instance, is better than
yours, and humbly suggest you try it.
Terry
I
appreciate the spirit in which the above is written. Not a
communality on TT. Much appreciated. I really do not
want this to be about me, but what I actually said. In the above,
you have a point of view that explains at least three passages of scriptures
referred in my text. If you came into my library, you would a set
on books on the shelf that get used on a daily basis
-- they are greek grammars, four or five greek interlinears,
the Greek New Testament (which contains a critical analysis of many
problematic phrases and words of the N.T. scripture), several gk-english
lexicons, Kittles 9 volume greek word studies, and a host of other related
material. My point? These are the books I
use -- not commentaries. I have listened for
nearly a year, now, to a few, a very few, charge me with being somewhat
mindless in ability and dysfunctional in my search techniques
-- when, in fact, the very opposite is true. When was
the last time anyone member of the opposition spent hours studying a single
greek nuance. When was the last time someone read every
pertinent biblical passage on a given subject (yes, I do use a concordance
- Young's). There is absolutely no one on this
forum who is more concerned about or spends more time in study of the biblical
message. Not one person. Your quote " I can tell them what I
believe instead of asking them what I should believe" is not something I
view as desirable -- in terms of being a truth seeker.
Did you learn your trade by simply reading a book? Have you
become a caring husband via the same process? Driving a car?
Learning to walk -- Terry the Sufficient learning to walk on
his own. Terry -- there is nothing that you know in
this life that has come your way apart from your association with
others. AND, you are no more a full blown student of the Word than
I -- that is something that I do
know.
But more importantly -- let's go to the very
scriptures you say you study more than I:
Community is ordained
by God through Christ (apostles and the like) and is such "for the
equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of
the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the truth
(we need each other BY DIVINE APPOINT, Terry) and of the knowledge
of the Son of God (yes, Judy, He remains the Son even after He is
"gone'), to a mature man (something that is not yet a reality), to
the measure of the stature which belongs to fulness of Christ
.......... but speaking the truth in love (TO EACH
OTHER) we are to grow up in all respects into Him , who is the head,
even Christ" (Eph 4:12-15).
From a pastoral
point of view, this discussion reveals a certain immaturity that (a) hard to
impossible to admit on this forum and (b) a problem for us all.
There is nothing that I believe that is not grounded in
scripture. Nothing. Do I have room for
group -- yes. Is that easy to admit? Well,
there are certainly others on TT who simply cannot go that route.
John
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