David wrote
> Question. It seems to me that the incarnational
theology you have blessed us with requires the idea of the fall. The
idea of a Savior who encompasses all of humanity to save it seems to
require the idea of a man who caused the fall of humanity. Otherwise,
if we deal only with individual sins, then the Savior only applies on an
individual basis. The understanding of the incarnation which I know
you have would fall apart, would it not?
I doubt it. You see, David, I am not a
foundationalist. Moreover, I am very confident in my teachers, even when I am
incompetent to explain to others their positions. And so, I doubt that anything
is in danger of falling apart. But if something I believe today turns out to be
inadequate, no problem, I will adjust accordingly and tomorrow believe just as
strongly something else. Why? because the failure on my part will be one of
ignorance and not hubris.
As far as falling apart goes, I think you will find
that very few of us are, in fact, foundationalists; most of them have died off
-- couldn't take falling apart, I guess :>)
But were I a foundationalist, I would not
expect my understanding of the incarnation to fall apart on this
one. The go'el is a major theme which runs throughout the entire Old
Testament. For go'el to be meaningfully significant in the minds of the Hebrews
we would expect to find that they had been reared under the rubric of
Representational Kinship. That is in fact exactly what we do discover in the OT
narrative leading up to the birth of Christ: Adam, the representative of
humanity; Noah, the representative of the righteous; Abraham, the representative
of the covenant community; David, the representative of Israel against Goliath,
the representative of the Philistines; and on and on and on.
Now, with that said, I do not think the fall was a
prerequisite to the advent of Emmanuel. It was to adoption that humanity was
predestined IN CHRIST. I have yet to see any reason why our adoption
necessitates Adam's fall. Christ was coming anyway. Adam, and in him humanity,
did not have to fall in order that we be adopted in Christ. What
the fall did was necessitate Christ's death, in order that the
unnecessitated adoption might still take place in him.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places
in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having
predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the
good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by
which He has made us accepted in the Beloved" (Eph 1.3-6).
Anyway, I hope this is helpful,
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Fall of
Man
> > I for one am somewhat apathetic about
> > John's position. ... As far as John goes,
> > if he wants to question the orthodoxy
> > of the fall, I say let him do so.
>
> Thanks for the explanation, Bill. I really do appreciate it.
>
> Question. It seems to me that the incarnational theology you have blessed
> us with requires the idea of the fall. The idea of a Savior who encompasses
> all of humanity to save it seems to require the idea of a man who caused the
> fall of humanity. Otherwise, if we deal only with individual sins, then the
> Savior only applies on an individual basis. The understanding of the
> incarnation which I know you have would fall apart, would it not?
>
> Romans 5:15
> (15) ... if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of
> God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded
> unto many.
>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller.
>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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